evil and God
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22-06-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 08:55 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 08:35 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Once I believed this way as well. That is no longer the case.

If something interacts with our universe, and the effects of that interaction are evidenced, then would you not expect there to be evidence of the cause of the interaction?

It seems to me that this leads you to the god-of-the-gaps, where god is simply a metaphor for something we don't understand.


Once again, this sums up what I formerly believed.


Doesn't that mean that god is creating and orchestrating evil as well as good? Not just allowing evil to happen, but actually controlling and participating in it.

Yes, actively orchestrating it, and also letting us choose. Involved, but less involved than I think the Christian G-d is depicted to be. I guess my concept of G-d is a little more like the Force in Star Wars. I've also heard respected Rabbis compare Judaism with the Matrix 1.

If your God were to have any effect in this world, it would be detectable.

Nothing has ever been detected.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-06-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 01:32 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 01:28 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  You didn't answer the question, did God create man to be rebellious, in that Adam and Eve would be able to disobey him and reject him? If so is it their fault when they did rebel against him and suffered for it or is it his fault? You wrote that God didn't create man rebellious, than how did he create him then? To be submissive and to follow his orders? Than he did create man to be robotic.

Since God can do what He wants it would not be unreasonably for Him to provide a framework within which to operate. God wants man to lovingly obey Him instead of a brainless action. Wouldn't this be the preferred response in a relationship?

So you are admitting that God mad man rebellious or at least with the ability to rebel if he chose to which he did. So your earlier statement that God didn't make man rebellious is wrong or you knowingly lied about it.

I don't think anyone would want someone to love them under threat but apparently that's exactly what God wanted, he told Adam not to eat from the tree and he did, God punished him and expelled him from Eden, I guess he did want robot love after all. He also wants that from all humans because if we don't love him he will punish us.

Real love doesn't flourish in a abusive environment where one person has a shit ton more power and influence than the other one. If you really love someone you aren't possessive over them, you'd rather let them go if that means they will be happy then trying to control them. God only wants love so he can control and manipulate you, if you turn away you will burn for it, literally, how is that a good thing? If you question him, which you should do any chance you get you're not a true believe, and again you will be punished. That is not love, it's fear.

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22-06-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 01:35 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 01:32 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I'm never quite sure what theists mean by that... I accept claims for which there is evidence and the more outlandish the claim the more evidence is needed. I don't believe things are true, I believe that they are more or less likely to be true based on the evidence supporting them. I recognize that there are many things I do not know or understand and that I may never know or understand them. I also recognize that what I might want to be real or not has no bearing on whether it is actually real or not. Finally, I understand that making up "god did it" answers doesn't actually get me any closer to the real truth of anything; it just provides a reason to stop searching.

Thank you for the response. What is the purpose of life in your worldview?

I think that is a nonsensical question. My purpose in life is whatever I choose it to be. I see no reason to think that I exist as part of any plan or that there is a purpose assigned to my life, or to any life, by any outside agency. I do not feel the need for that kind of security blanket; I am responsible for me.

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22-06-2016, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 01:56 PM by Chas.)
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 11:51 AM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:38 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Please explain this comment.


Are you saying that a child dying of terminal cancer is a punishment from god?
For the child's sins? or possibly the sins of someone else?

Is that what you are saying?

If someone who knows that alcohol consumption in large quantities negatively impacts them yet consume large quantities anyway. They get in their car, drive home, and on the way hit another car and those in the car die from this wreck. The people in the car who was hit by the drunk did nothing wrong yet suffered from the consequences of the drunk. Similarly, man's poor choice in disobeying God has consequential effects, at the core of man's nature which has become corrupt. Would this not provide a reasonable answer to the evil and suffering on our world? God has judged evil in Christ and offers redemption to all who by faith trust in the work of Christ.

No, that is not a reasonable answer. It is sick, twisted thinking. Especially because it is entirely invented. There is no evidence.

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22-06-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 01:01 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  God did not create man

There you go. Fixed.

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22-06-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 01:26 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Which version of the cosmological argument do you think is compelling?

Bumping the question...

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22-06-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: evil and God
This is quoted from another topic: yes, mostly from NT, however Romans 9 is taken from OT.

(23-09-2015 03:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-09-2015 12:37 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Yes I will thanks for reminding me.

If she tries to argue the point, tell her to read Pro. 16:4, Romans 9, Eph. 1:4-5 and verse 11, Acts 15:17-18, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Cor. 2:7, 2 Thess. 2:13, and 1 Thess. 1:4.

Tell her to read these aloud and try to explain how we can have free will if these verses are true.

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22-06-2016, 02:00 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 01:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is quoted from another topic: yes, mostly from NT, however Romans 9 is taken from OT.

(23-09-2015 03:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If she tries to argue the point, tell her to read Pro. 16:4, Romans 9, Eph. 1:4-5 and verse 11, Acts 15:17-18, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Cor. 2:7, 2 Thess. 2:13, and 1 Thess. 1:4.

Tell her to read these aloud and try to explain how we can have free will if these verses are true.

Those don't actually support your argument unless you read them as exclusive - and there is no reason you should.

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22-06-2016, 02:08 PM
RE: evil and God
But what is the definition of evil? Are you referring to Satan, the devil or some other specific entity that embodies evil? The US Post Office lost my ATM card before they could get it to its destination. Is that evil? My brother, when something of that nature happens, attributes it to the Devil and assumes that there is an evil force that does bad things to him because he prays. One late Friday evening as he was rushing to the bank to cash his check for the week's work 'they' parked a train on the tracks at a railroad crossing so that he couldn't get to the bank before it closed. That is an example of the evil forces that work against him! So when you say evil what does it mean to you?
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22-06-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: evil and God
(22-06-2016 01:39 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 01:32 PM)godisinspiteofevil Wrote:  Since God can do what He wants it would not be unreasonably for Him to provide a framework within which to operate. God wants man to lovingly obey Him instead of a brainless action. Wouldn't this be the preferred response in a relationship?

So you are admitting that God mad man rebellious or at least with the ability to rebel if he chose to which he did. So your earlier statement that God didn't make man rebellious is wrong or you knowingly lied about it.

I don't think anyone would want someone to love them under threat but apparently that's exactly what God wanted, he told Adam not to eat from the tree and he did, God punished him and expelled him from Eden, I guess he did want robot love after all. He also wants that from all humans because if we don't love him he will punish us.

Real love doesn't flourish in a abusive environment where one person has a shit ton more power and influence than the other one. If you really love someone you aren't possessive over them, you'd rather let them go if that means they will be happy then trying to control them. God only wants love so he can control and manipulate you, if you turn away you will burn for it, literally, how is that a good thing? If you question him, which you should do any chance you get you're not a true believe, and again you will be punished. That is not love, it's fear.

Thank you for discussing with me. I agree with you which is why God will not force one to choose Him. He will allow man to refuse relationship with Him and live without Him forever. By the way, by what basis do you determine what is bad? If there is no God then good is determined by man. Man is selfish so who is to say what man determines as good is good?
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