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14-08-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: evolution
(14-08-2016 02:35 PM)genericamerican22 Wrote:  I still believe in god but I want to know if you made a book with all the evidence for evolution how many pages would that book be? I kind of want to believe in evolution but I think there's evidence for god as well

Um no, the only "evidence" for god claims is that humans have had a history of making them up. That does not prove anything. The ancient Egyptians had a history of claiming and depicting polytheistic gods like Ra and Horus and Osiris and Isis, but somehow you don't buy those claims do you?

There is an evolutionary explanation in a very scientific sense as to how our own false perceptions can lead to bad guesses. It really is no different than when you were a kid and you falsely thought the shadow on the night time wall was a boogieman. Or your false perception there really was a Santa because your parents sold you that.

You shouldn't want to accept evolution because you want to feel good about it, you should accept it for the same reason one should know the fact that the earth is a globe. Facts are facts regardless if we like them or not.

That isn't advocating pessimism or fatalism or lawlessness. It is simply accepting that Adenine, Guanine, Cytosine and Thymine make up all life. If you can accept a tree and bush as both being considered plants, and you can accept a domestic house cat and big cats like tigers and lions being related, then is as simple as knowing that what makes life different is tiny changes in those sequences over long periods of time, that creates separation in looks.

We are not a product made in a magical factory by a sky wizard. We are a result of billions of years of the earliest life long ago to what has survived up till now. Our planet has had 5 mass extinctions including the famous one everyone knows about that killed the dinosaurs. The water bear is one of the few life forms known to have survived all 5. Mammals, which humans are as part of the primate family, would not be suited to survive such a disaster. A cockroach however would be far more likely to survive.

99% of life that has lived is now extinct. That does not say to me a God is involved. Seems superfluous to create a planet 4 billion years ago, allow 5 mass extinctions, then create humans in our current form only 200,000 years ago, then wait until just 10,000 years ago to allow humans the first writing, and then allow them to fight worldwide up until today even in our modern world, if you had a universal message for humanity.

Evolution is a much better explanation as to why we are here, not a god of the gaps answer.

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14-08-2016, 07:12 PM
RE: evolution
Begin your trek to a PhD in biology.
Look up every branch of biology you can find.
Pour throw every book in every library across the world that says something about life, cellular structure, anatomy of every animal, insect, bacteria, virus and a few million more.

Name every species on the planet and a thousand books per species and they all will be evidence of evolution. The theory of evolution explains how life changes over time. It's used in every branch of medicine and is the backbone of modern biology.

Every fossil ever found. Every bacterium that has ever existed are all examples of the changes we observe in life. That change is evolution.

I'll throw a number out there if you want.
8 quintillion pages.

But you really don't need to read that many to understand evolution. I've never read one book about the game of baseball, but I understand the core concepts well enough to play second base. I understand that a pitchers arm gets tired over time. I understand how fast a ball can be thrown and with a bit of physics, you can calculate how much force needs to be applied to hitting a ball at a certain angle to make a home run.

Evolution is about understanding core concepts. We don't have to have a PhD in biology to accept the facts we have observed in nature.

If you would like to study one particular animal and it's evolution over time, I would choose the whale. An animal that began on land and slowly over millions of years, adapted to the water. It's amazing.

And it all happened because of small changes over a long period of time.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-08-2016, 07:23 PM
RE: evolution
(14-08-2016 06:50 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

To to OP?

Why not have both? There are theistic evolutionists.

Thumbsup

Uggggg..... I hate that splitting the baby garbage. Yes there certainly can be theist who accept evolution, but that doesn't make a god real by proxy. Every religion in the world has some degree of people who accept science. You can find not just Christians, but Muslims and Jews and Hindus and even Buddhist who will argue that science matches their religions.

I'd recommend on top of Dawkins "The God Delusion" two other books, that should be as famous as that, both by Scientist Victor Stenger.

1. The New Atheism, which goes into why splitting the baby is wrong and why science does have something to say about God.

2. God The Failed Hypothesis.

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14-08-2016, 09:04 PM
RE: evolution
(14-08-2016 02:35 PM)genericamerican22 Wrote:  I still believe in god but I want to know if you made a book with all the evidence for evolution how many pages would that book be? I kind of want to believe in evolution but I think there's evidence for god as well

God and evolution are not mutually exclusive. The Catholic church accepted evolution decades ago. I've worked with several devout Christians who were fine scientists and would have cheerfully skewered and grilled creationists for their imbecility.

How many pages isn't a terribly useful measurement. It would be a truly stupendous number though given that there are entire branches of biology devoted to it and a fairly large number of peer-reviewed journals dedicated to it. For example:

Journal of Evolutionary Biology
Journal of Human Evolution
Journal of Mammalian Evolution
Molecular Biology and Evolution

And that's just the first few hits on Google. You're looking at a decent portion of a library just for the journals.

But like I said, page count doesn't mean much. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings tops 1000 pages. The US Constitution is a bit slimmer.

If it's evidence you're interested try this article. It's just one piece of evidence for evolution but it's persuasive. Feel free to drop me a note if you have questions.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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15-08-2016, 09:06 AM
RE: evolution
You want a current example of evolution that is very timely?

Head lice.

Just in time for back to school season. They've developed immunity to over the counter treatments through 3 mutations.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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15-08-2016, 09:22 AM
RE: evolution
(14-08-2016 07:23 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Uggggg..... I hate that splitting the baby garbage. Yes there certainly can be theist who accept evolution, but that doesn't make a god real by proxy. Every religion in the world has some degree of people who accept science. You can find not just Christians, but Muslims and Jews and Hindus and even Buddhist who will argue that science matches their religions.

I'd recommend on top of Dawkins "The God Delusion" two other books, that should be as famous as that, both by Scientist Victor Stenger.

1. The New Atheism, which goes into why splitting the baby is wrong and why science does have something to say about God.

2. God The Failed Hypothesis.

No

Never said it did. Was just pointing out some options to the original Poster, is all.
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15-08-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: evolution
If you want a book that briefly lays out the major evidence for human evolution (and some others) but remains a defense of religion, I often recommend The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Dr. Francis S. Collins, former head of the Human Genome Project and current head of the National Institutes of Health.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-08-2016, 03:23 PM
RE: evolution
(14-08-2016 03:19 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(14-08-2016 02:35 PM)genericamerican22 Wrote:  I still believe in god but I want to know if you made a book with all the evidence for evolution how many pages would that book be? I kind of want to believe in evolution but I think there's evidence for god as well

Who told you that evolution is the opposite to god?

It's more about being superflous than being in opposition. Evolution does not gain additional predictive power when one tries to put god in it, so there is no reason for doing so.

As Laplace said - I don't need this hypothesis. God simply isn't needed though catholic church by faking acceptance want to put him where is no place for him.



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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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15-08-2016, 08:02 PM
RE: evolution
Also, look no further than your own body, for a prime example of evolution.

You and every world leader that has ever existed share a common great great great great, etc, etc grandfather.

Go back even further and we find common ancestors with great apes. Back further, common ancestors with monkeys. All life on the planet is connected.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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15-08-2016, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2016 08:36 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: evolution
(15-08-2016 02:59 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  If you want a book that briefly lays out the major evidence for human evolution (and some others) but remains a defense of religion, I often recommend The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Dr. Francis S. Collins, former head of the Human Genome Project and current head of the National Institutes of Health.

Or "Finding Darwin's God", Dr. Kenneth R. Miller, (a Christian professor of Biochemistry at Brown University). BTW, it has one of the best refutations of Creationism there is.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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