explain the miracle of Zeitoun
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09-09-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: explain the miracle of Zeitoun
(09-09-2014 01:04 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 03:55 PM)sophonian Wrote:  There are photos from the event. This is specially interesting, but looks like a religious image. I havent found any confirmation that it is an hoax. What do you think of this image and others?

http://yourdivineinspirations.net/wp-con...oun-05.jpg


All I see in that image is a Disney Princess.

If there was a Jesus, he would have looked pretty much like this -


[Image: jesus-blog-2-300x267.jpg]


Do you really think that the female counterpart from that time and part of the world, would like like a white girl with a nose job?


The gullibility is strong with this one...

If this guy got on a plane the authorities would be eyeing him as a bombing suspect.

The difference between the traditional virgin mary garment and the togas that women wore in Rome was minimal. Heck, the light could be a vision of Livia Drusilla, the wife of Nero, returning to haunt everyone for giving Nero such a bad name.


[Image: Livia-Drusilla.jpg]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-09-2014, 02:04 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 11:41 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: explain the miracle of Zeitoun
I present to you a series of events that occurred in what is now, one of the United States of America.

The Governor of the state in question became involved.
A court was established.
Witnesses were carefully examined and cross-examined, by the best experts of the day.
Evidence was gathered.
Many people confessed in public to the officials of the court.
The entire proceeding was documented with thousands of sworn affidavits, court documents, interviews and related proceedings.
Sufficient evidence was established by intelligent men and women of good faith, that the declarations of the witnesses were true, and that these declarations should in all reasonableness result in the established legal consequences that reasonable good adult men and women thought were perfectly legitimate.

What evidence did they have that the assertions concerning what they said they saw and were convinced of were really true ?

1. Hundreds if not thousands of people were involved in concluding that what they said they saw and concluded was actually true.
2. The witnesses provided sworn testimony in court, sworn affidavits which we can look at today, and affirmed they were completely utterly convinced that what they were saying was totally completely true.
3. The witnesses came from all social strata, and every diverse background, including the most highly educated of the day.
4. These witnesses included judges, magistrates, the governor of the state, and family members of those about whom the assertions were made.
5. Many involved had much to lose if the assertions were to be found true. The consequences would impact many in very personal ways, if found to be true, thus had no conflict of interest, or reasin to lie. Many could lose beloved spouses and family members and friends about whom they cared a great deal.
6. The proceedings were thorough, exhaustive investigations. They deliberately gathered evidence. They made every effort to sort out truth from fallacy. They went to every possible length to actually discern the facts.
7. There are numerous artifacts from the time, and many documents from the proceedings we can review in person today.
8. These proceedings happened, not 2000 years ago, but a mere few hundred years ago. The literacy rate was far far higher than in ancient Israel.
9. For claimed events from 2000 years ago, there are no actual original documents of any kind. None at all. Only copies from centuries later.
10. For the events in question we have sworn documented court testimony, not just word of mouth transmission.
11. A truck full of documents from the proceedings exists at the University of Virginia Library. You can go see the testimony of the eye-witnesses for yourself, today.
12. By any measure or method, the quantity and quality of the evidence for the events in question FAR FAR FAR outweighs the quality of the evidence for the events in Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
13. Anyone who claims they have good evidence to support belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, or any miracle thought to have happened today, IF they are in any way a consistent, honest, logical and a reasonably thoughtful person, they MUST also accept :

That of the 250 people accused, 19 women in Salem Massachusetts, including Sarah Goode, and Rebekah Nurse, The Witches of Salem, really were actually witches, and were justly condemned and executed for performing demon magic.

Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-09-2014, 02:19 PM
RE: explain the miracle of Zeitoun
Somehow my first thought when I read the OP was the Bullshit episode on seeing signs in things like seeing Jesus in a door or Mary in grilled cheese (hey, that lady is just everywhere!) (yeah those were both in that episode). People will see signs where they want to see signs. Just that little bit of "evidence" that shows that their belief system is the right one. Of course it doesn't make sense and of course they can''t explain why it's good proof or makes sense but it's enough for them and they won't budge because they saw "the sign." What troopers to believe something as silly as their deity saying, "hey, I'm going to show that I exist by making a Cheeto in my shape! That'll work!"

Man, if I had my headphones, I'd totally watch Bullshit now.

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09-09-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: explain the miracle of Zeitoun
(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I present to you a series of events that occurred in what is now, one of the United States of America.

The Governor of the state in question became involved.
A court was established.
Witnesses were carefully examined and cross-examined, by the best experts of the day.
Evidence was gathered.
Many people confessed in public to the officials of the court.
The entire proceeding was documented with thousands of sworn affidavits, court documents, interviews and related proceedings.
Sufficient evidence was established by intelligent men and women of good faith, that the declarations of the witnesses were true, and that these declarations should in all reasonableness result in the established legal consequences that reasonable good adult men and women thought were perfectly legitimate.

What evidence did they have that the assertions concerning what they said they saw and were convinced of were really true ?

1. Hundreds if not thousands of people were involved in concluding that what they said they saw and concluded was actually true.
2. The witnesses provided sworn testimony in court, sworn affidavits which we can look at today, and affirmed they were completely utterly convinced that what they were saying was totally completely true.
3. The witnesses came from all social strata, and every diverse background, including the most highly educated of the day.
4. These witnesses included judges, magistrates, the governor of the state, and family members of those about whom the assertions were made.
5. Many involved had much to lose if the assertions were to be found true. The consequences would impact many in very personal ways, if found to be true, thus had no conflict of interest, or reasin to lie. Many could lose beloved spouses and family members and friends about whom they cared a great deal.
6. The proceedings were thorough, exhaustive investigations. They deliberately gathered evidence. They made every effort to sort out truth from fallacy. They went to every possible length to actually discern the facts.
7. There are numerous artifacts from the time, and many documents from the proceedings we can review in person today.
8. These proceedings happened, not 2000 years ago, but a mere few hundred years ago. The literacy rate was far far higher than in ancient Israel.
9. For claimed events from 2000 years ago, there are no actual original documents of any kind. None at all. Only copies from centuries later.
10. For the events in question we have sworn documented court testimony, not just word of mouth transmission.
11. A truck full of documents from the proceedings exist at the University of Virginia Library. You can go see the testimony of the eye-witnesses for yourself, today.
12. By any measure or method, the quantity and quality of the evidence for the events in question FAR FAR FAR outweigh the quality of the evidence for the events in Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
13. Anyone who claims they have good evidence to support belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, or any miracle thought to have happened today, IF they are in any way a consistent, honest, logical and a reasonably thoughtful person, they MUST also accept :

That of the 250 people accused, 19 women in Salem Massachusetts, including Sarah Goode, and Rebekah Nurse, The Witches of Salem, really were actually witches, and were justly condemned and executed for performing demon magic.

Tongue

Funny but my husband is currently in a production of The Crucible by Arthur Miller, about the Salem Witch trials. I thought I'd read more about the subject. There is a copy of the trial online one can read and it's very apparent that mass hysteria took place. As I was surfing the net I also came across the Le Roy, New York high school story where several girls were having spasms and tics which was diagnosed as mass hysteria. It seems the female teenage brain is quite susceptible to this but I'm not so sure that the religious brain is any better.

http://news.discovery.com/human/psycholo...120619.htm

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-09-2014, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 01:17 PM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: explain the miracle of Zeitoun
(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I present to you a series of events that occurred in what is now, one of the United States of America.

The Governor of the state in question became involved.
A court was established.
Witnesses were carefully examined and cross-examined, by the best experts of the day.
Evidence was gathered.
Many people confessed in public to the officials of the court.
The entire proceeding was documented with thousands of sworn affidavits, court documents, interviews and related proceedings.
Sufficient evidence was established by intelligent men and women of good faith, that the declarations of the witnesses were true, and that these declarations should in all reasonableness result in the established legal consequences that reasonable good adult men and women thought were perfectly legitimate.

What evidence did they have that the assertions concerning what they said they saw and were convinced of were really true ?

1. Hundreds if not thousands of people were involved in concluding that what they said they saw and concluded was actually true.
2. The witnesses provided sworn testimony in court, sworn affidavits which we can look at today, and affirmed they were completely utterly convinced that what they were saying was totally completely true.
3. The witnesses came from all social strata, and every diverse background, including the most highly educated of the day.
4. These witnesses included judges, magistrates, the governor of the state, and family members of those about whom the assertions were made.
5. Many involved had much to lose if the assertions were to be found true. The consequences would impact many in very personal ways, if found to be true, thus had no conflict of interest, or reasin to lie. Many could lose beloved spouses and family members and friends about whom they cared a great deal.
6. The proceedings were thorough, exhaustive investigations. They deliberately gathered evidence. They made every effort to sort out truth from fallacy. They went to every possible length to actually discern the facts.
7. There are numerous artifacts from the time, and many documents from the proceedings we can review in person today.
8. These proceedings happened, not 2000 years ago, but a mere few hundred years ago. The literacy rate was far far higher than in ancient Israel.
9. For claimed events from 2000 years ago, there are no actual original documents of any kind. None at all. Only copies from centuries later.
10. For the events in question we have sworn documented court testimony, not just word of mouth transmission.
11. A truck full of documents from the proceedings exist at the University of Virginia Library. You can go see the testimony of the eye-witnesses for yourself, today.
12. By any measure or method, the quantity and quality of the evidence for the events in question FAR FAR FAR outweigh the quality of the evidence for the events in Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
13. Anyone who claims they have good evidence to support belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, or any miracle thought to have happened today, IF they are in any way a consistent, honest, logical and a reasonably thoughtful person, they MUST also accept :

That of the 250 people accused, 19 women in Salem Massachusetts, including Sarah Goode, and Rebekah Nurse, The Witches of Salem, really were actually witches, and were justly condemned and executed for performing demon magic.

Tongue

Very nice reply! I will have to borrow this in the future. I have a massive book called Records of the Salem Witch-Hunt (2009) that contains (as the name suggests) all of the court records on each person tried during the trials. It is just shy of 1,000 pages. I just flipped to one of several eyewitness testimonies against Sarah Good. Let's just say the "evidence" presented is laughable. For instance, on March 1, 1692, Elizabeth Hubbard stated the following (all misspellings are original):

"I saw the Apperishtion of Sarah good who did most greviously afflect me by pinching and pricking me and so she continewed hurting of me tell the first day of March being the day of her examination and then she did also most greviously afflect and tortor me also dureing the time of her examynation and also severall times sence she hath afflected me and urged me to writ in her book: also on the day of hir examination I saw the Apperishtion of Sarah good goe and hurt and afflect the bodyes of Elizabeth parish Abigail williams and Ann putnam jun'r and also I have seen the the Apperishtion of Sarah Good afflecting:the body of Sarah vibber."
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10-09-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: explain the miracle of Zeitoun
(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  13. Anyone who claims they have good evidence to support belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, or any miracle thought to have happened today, IF they are in any way a consistent, honest, logical and a reasonably thoughtful person, they MUST also accept :

That of the 250 people accused, 19 women in Salem Massachusetts, including Sarah Goode, and Rebekah Nurse, The Witches of Salem, really were actually witches, and were justly condemned and executed for performing demon magic.

The only problem I see with this is that the already batshit insane have zero reason *not* to accept this Weeping

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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