feminism vs everything
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28-10-2014, 08:05 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
(28-10-2014 10:22 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(25-10-2014 07:28 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  the problem I have hear is that a good but of feminism is is a schizophrenic narrative
(25-10-2014 09:01 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  2. why is their narrative so schizophrenic......

Dissociative Identity Disorder (aka, Multiple Personality Disorder) is not Schizophrenia.

Carry on. Drinking Beverage

I would kind of know that having schizophrenia myself... well schitzo-affective but I was going for the multiple voice in the same head idea.

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28-10-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
(28-10-2014 10:40 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  If people are under the impression that the public face of feminism is an extremely rare minority then it explains a little bit, but it doesn't really explain why anti-feminists are being branded as sexist. Unless of course a complete denial of the public face of feminism is considered to be a totally proper position? Societal labels are what they are. Sure you can pretend that the public face of feminism doesn't exist all you like, but when you apply that practically and end up calling gender equalitarians 'sexists' for being against that public face it ends up looking like two sides of the same coin.
"Oh, they're not real feminists." doesn't really work. It's a futile effort to claim a name back which already has a widely accepted meaning.

If someone is talking about how they hate feminists because they turn online communities and universities in hell holes of sexism and denial of freedom of expression they're obviously not talking about you if you are an equalitarian and not a sexist who wants to delete opposing viewpoints. Saying "Look up what feminism actually means, retard!" doesn't help at all.
"Ok, so you say that feminism is actually just egalitarianism with a concentration on gender issues, but all of the feminists on the TV, on the internet, in the newspapers and walking around in the streets are acting a totally different way, and they take up most of the google searches too. And they say you are actually the fake feminists" Telling people to 'get educated you sexist pig' produces absolutely no good results, and claiming that the other side of feminism is 'not true feminism' doesn't help at all either.

That other side of feminism calls you 'not real feminists' too. In fact many forms of the group call each other 'not real feminists'. The true egalitarians, which you claim to be, apparently claim that the other groups don't exist except for a tiny handful of people, but tens of thousands of those people say you have been brainwashed by the patriarchy. Then of course you have the feminists who claim that any feminist group which also concentrates on male issues is 'not real feminism', and then the other groups who say "men's issues and women's issues are tied together and anyone who ignores men's issues is not a real feminist". You then also get the groups who claim that men's issues don't exist at all and no real feminist would think they do.
Of course though the sexist group seems to have a monopoly when it comes to news, social media and university campuses. Pretending they are not feminists, or that they only exist in the dozens, is bordering on delusional, and also an unproductive position insisting on ignoring the issue.

I would assume that the feminists on an atheist rationalist forum are the egalitarian type, and that 'feminist' is used as the label only because of historical reasons. Fine, go with that, but going into a shit flinger because all of these other groups share the same label and people don't like them is completely stupid.

Maybe it's just time for a division? Personally I've always preferred to go by the technical term of gender equality, but if you've picked a label and that label becomes shit it makes more sense to just abandon it rather than alienating everyone by attempting to clean it off. In fact it just contributes to the shit the more it's clung to. If someone sees the feminists who have the monopoly on social media, news and university campuses, and then try to get more information and they get told by egalitarian feminists "Educate yourself about real feminism, dipshit" they just see more of the same shit; and there is absolutely nothing there to show a separation of the two types. Suddenly gender equality gets a bad connotation, then people start saying of egalitarians 'those people are the same as feminists', and before you know it everything has been pushed back to 1890 because people who actually stand for gender equality held onto an outdated term while it turned into shit instead of just dropping it and taking a new label for the 21st century.

Personally I'm all for just using 'humanist' as that covers all humanity, and if you have a particular interest in gender issues, or are a gender equality activist, then add that on the end if you want, or if you are particularly interested in income equality between classes, or race issues, whatever.

Maybe you disagree with all this, and that is fine. Unfortunately this is another issue I have to be a boring bastard and just say: I've said all I have to say, if we disagree then we disagree.







Although I wonder if there would be a better word to describe a Humanist who has an emphasis on the fair treatment of non-humans...

did you just eloquently put my statement so well...... sum it all up as feminism is a schizophrenic movement.. lol and you would had what my point was.

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28-10-2014, 08:16 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
(28-10-2014 12:39 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 11:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  Stop claiming you know the public face of feminism when you are talking about just one public face of feminism.

It's like damning democracy for its evils when you are actually talking about The Democratic People's Republic of Korea.


That's a good point.
Which is why i tried to point out individual opinions do tend to color feminism ideals.
Its really not
One size fits all
Concept.

sorry for multiposting but I am fone over that... I agree with that point.. lol

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28-10-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
(28-10-2014 08:13 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 10:40 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  If people are under the impression that the public face of feminism is an extremely rare minority then it explains a little bit, but it doesn't really explain why anti-feminists are being branded as sexist. Unless of course a complete denial of the public face of feminism is considered to be a totally proper position? Societal labels are what they are. Sure you can pretend that the public face of feminism doesn't exist all you like, but when you apply that practically and end up calling gender equalitarians 'sexists' for being against that public face it ends up looking like two sides of the same coin.
"Oh, they're not real feminists." doesn't really work. It's a futile effort to claim a name back which already has a widely accepted meaning.

If someone is talking about how they hate feminists because they turn online communities and universities in hell holes of sexism and denial of freedom of expression they're obviously not talking about you if you are an equalitarian and not a sexist who wants to delete opposing viewpoints. Saying "Look up what feminism actually means, retard!" doesn't help at all.
"Ok, so you say that feminism is actually just egalitarianism with a concentration on gender issues, but all of the feminists on the TV, on the internet, in the newspapers and walking around in the streets are acting a totally different way, and they take up most of the google searches too. And they say you are actually the fake feminists" Telling people to 'get educated you sexist pig' produces absolutely no good results, and claiming that the other side of feminism is 'not true feminism' doesn't help at all either.

That other side of feminism calls you 'not real feminists' too. In fact many forms of the group call each other 'not real feminists'. The true egalitarians, which you claim to be, apparently claim that the other groups don't exist except for a tiny handful of people, but tens of thousands of those people say you have been brainwashed by the patriarchy. Then of course you have the feminists who claim that any feminist group which also concentrates on male issues is 'not real feminism', and then the other groups who say "men's issues and women's issues are tied together and anyone who ignores men's issues is not a real feminist". You then also get the groups who claim that men's issues don't exist at all and no real feminist would think they do.
Of course though the sexist group seems to have a monopoly when it comes to news, social media and university campuses. Pretending they are not feminists, or that they only exist in the dozens, is bordering on delusional, and also an unproductive position insisting on ignoring the issue.

I would assume that the feminists on an atheist rationalist forum are the egalitarian type, and that 'feminist' is used as the label only because of historical reasons. Fine, go with that, but going into a shit flinger because all of these other groups share the same label and people don't like them is completely stupid.

Maybe it's just time for a division? Personally I've always preferred to go by the technical term of gender equality, but if you've picked a label and that label becomes shit it makes more sense to just abandon it rather than alienating everyone by attempting to clean it off. In fact it just contributes to the shit the more it's clung to. If someone sees the feminists who have the monopoly on social media, news and university campuses, and then try to get more information and they get told by egalitarian feminists "Educate yourself about real feminism, dipshit" they just see more of the same shit; and there is absolutely nothing there to show a separation of the two types. Suddenly gender equality gets a bad connotation, then people start saying of egalitarians 'those people are the same as feminists', and before you know it everything has been pushed back to 1890 because people who actually stand for gender equality held onto an outdated term while it turned into shit instead of just dropping it and taking a new label for the 21st century.

Personally I'm all for just using 'humanist' as that covers all humanity, and if you have a particular interest in gender issues, or are a gender equality activist, then add that on the end if you want, or if you are particularly interested in income equality between classes, or race issues, whatever.

Maybe you disagree with all this, and that is fine. Unfortunately this is another issue I have to be a boring bastard and just say: I've said all I have to say, if we disagree then we disagree.







Although I wonder if there would be a better word to describe a Humanist who has an emphasis on the fair treatment of non-humans...

did you just eloquently put my statement so well...... sum it all up as feminism is a schizophrenic movement.. lol and you would had what my point was.

If it's a schizophrenic movement... what is an example you could describe of moment that isn't schizophrenic?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-10-2014, 12:04 AM
RE: feminism vs everything
(28-10-2014 08:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 08:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  Misandrist radical feminists ride unicorns into battle Dodgy They're that rare. Somehow the anti-fem crowd seem to have made the entire debate surrounding feminism about these mythical beasts and not about e.g. pay equality etc.

"You don't want pay equality, you secretly want to cut our balls off" style of thing... Rolleyes

I fear they're not quite that rare. No

Misandrists actually exist; unicorns, not so much.

That being said, what have misandrists actually accomplished? What are they doing? Who are they harassing? Because I can find real examples at the other end of the spectrum (MRA sexists) of people being threatened, harassed, and terrorized. And yet, being a feminist remains a dirty word, much like liberal.

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29-10-2014, 12:10 AM
RE: feminism vs everything
(29-10-2014 12:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 08:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  I fear they're not quite that rare. No

Misandrists actually exist; unicorns, not so much.

That being said, what have misandrists actually accomplished? What are they doing? Who are they harassing? Because I can find real examples at the other end of the spectrum (MRA sexists) of people being threatened, harassed, and terrorized. And yet, being a feminist remains a dirty word, much like liberal.


Thank you.
Just
Thanks for saying that.

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29-10-2014, 12:26 AM
RE: feminism vs everything
(29-10-2014 12:10 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Thank you.
Just
Thanks for saying that.

Heart Hug Heart

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29-10-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
(28-10-2014 11:33 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 08:13 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  did you just eloquently put my statement so well...... sum it all up as feminism is a schizophrenic movement.. lol and you would had what my point was.

If it's a schizophrenic movement... what is an example you could describe of moment that isn't schizophrenic?

rwo examples

1. of the already stated fine young capitalist being shut down by feminist
and two
2. the original masculinist being shut down. they weren't... they literally just wanted to hang out as guys/ but they where protested none the less.

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29-10-2014, 12:43 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
(29-10-2014 12:17 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 11:33 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If it's a schizophrenic movement... what is an example you could describe of moment that isn't schizophrenic?

rwo examples

1. of the already stated fine young capitalist being shut down by feminist
and two
2. the original masculinist being shut down. they weren't... they literally just wanted to hang out as guys/ but they where protested none the less.

As to #1 wtf are you talking about? Fine Young Capitalist is a feminist organization and has not been shut down. As to number 2 can you provide some kind of links?

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29-10-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: feminism vs everything
their efforts where derailed by other femininst.

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