femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
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15-08-2014, 06:54 AM
Re: RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 04:29 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(15-08-2014 04:22 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The arguments that people are internally/unconsciously effected by the media consume, does not equate to, gratification from an output of a media form means they'll get gratification of that nature by replicating the output outside of media.

I may have horribly mangled that description trying to add odd terms to it, but I hope it makes sense.

*faceplanet*
It does make sense and is an idiotic statement. Not because it's wrong, but because it's almost as obvious as saying that 1+1=2.
Of course people are influenced by things they see, hear, smell, touch, (...). It's part of a condition known as "not being brain-dead". Who the fuck says otherwise? The argument is that video games don't affect healthy (putting a lot of emphasis on this since it seems to be constantly omitted by both you and Mathilda, to name a few) people negatively enough for them to become violent sociopaths. I used myself as an example, but I have plenty of gamer friends and acquaintances to choose from. Pretty sure there are more than 100 of them (though not many more) at this point.

The obvious wouldn't need stating if you weren't continually ignoring what's blatant there. This problem continues in this post, you seem to keep wanting to counter argue something not being argued by anyone.

Why would we give an example of a violent sociopath? It has no relevance to anything discussed. You keep acting as if that's an argument being made when it's not.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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15-08-2014, 07:04 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 06:54 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The obvious wouldn't need stating if you weren't continually ignoring what's blatant there. This problem continues in this post, you seem to keep wanting to counter argue something not being argued by anyone.

Why would we give an example of a violent sociopath? It has no relevance to anything discussed. You keep acting as if that's an argument being made when it's not.

It's called a hyperbole. If you don't like it, replace "violent sociopath" with whatever the fuck you want. The argument is still sound. Video games do not negatively affect healthy people enough for them to have a noticeable, long-term effect.
Debunk, accept, or say you don't know enough. Three intellectually honest options. Pick one.
EDIT: You'll also notice how, in my latest reply to Mathilda, I addressed the argument she was making (without hyperbole, I think). Yet you didn't address that post and decided to focus on an older one that could have been discarded for the sake of the newer one. Why is that?

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Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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15-08-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 07:04 AM)One Above All Wrote:  Video games do not negatively affect healthy people enough for them to have a noticeable, long-term effect.
Debunk, accept, or say you don't know enough. Three intellectually honest options. Pick one.

Already debunked in my previous posts.
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15-08-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
I actually agree that there is an imbalance in games. I don't like this new breed of feminism because it's hysterical and sensationalist.... The problem isn't with the points being made but with who are making them and how they're made.

If I see UKIP or BNP representatives criticising Islam, I understand they're using irrational arguments to support their agenda. However, if I watch Sam Harris discuss the same issues I give his arguments more credibility due to their thought out and sceptical nature.

Representation in games is an issue but Sackesian, Watson and Feminist frequency are not the way forward, they are the BNP of feminism. A more rational voice or two need to cut through the shit.

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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15-08-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 07:05 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(15-08-2014 07:04 AM)One Above All Wrote:  Video games do not negatively affect healthy people enough for them to have a noticeable, long-term effect.
Debunk, accept, or say you don't know enough. Three intellectually honest options. Pick one.

Already debunked in my previous posts.

Then debunk this:
(15-08-2014 04:53 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(15-08-2014 04:41 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  The effect is far more pernicious and doesn't just apply to the perception of women based on their portrayal in video games, but any stereotype you see portrayed on TV, in films, in news reports etc.
<snip>

Yet I've never felt this, nor have any of my gamer friends. My guess? It's cultural. In my country, only the dumbest of the dumb (usually old people, from my experience, hinting at the cultural aspect of this issue) discriminate against minorities like non-heterosexuals, women, non-whites, disabled people, and so on. The rest of us do not. The USA, on the other hand, has a slight (read: major) problem with catching up with the rest of the modern world when it comes to discrimination and rationality. I call it the only "third-world first-world country" because of this.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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15-08-2014, 07:20 AM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2014 07:24 AM by ClydeLee.)
Re: RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 07:04 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(15-08-2014 06:54 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The obvious wouldn't need stating if you weren't continually ignoring what's blatant there. This problem continues in this post, you seem to keep wanting to counter argue something not being argued by anyone.

Why would we give an example of a violent sociopath? It has no relevance to anything discussed. You keep acting as if that's an argument being made when it's not.

It's called a hyperbole. If you don't like it, replace "violent sociopath" with whatever the fuck you want. The argument is still sound. Video games do not negatively affect healthy people enough for them to have a noticeable, long-term effect.
Debunk, accept, or say you don't know enough. Three intellectually honest options. Pick one.
EDIT: You'll also notice how, in my latest reply to Mathilda, I addressed the argument she was making (without hyperbole, I think). Yet you didn't address that post and decided to focus on an older one that could have been discarded for the sake of the newer one. Why is that?

Generally people respond to posts responded to them... Why would I focus on what you've said toward other people? I can get that's it hyperbole, but you've continually brought up arguments or points not coherent to the arguments or points made here.

If I responded to your most recent post... Id say what? Debunk your personal experience of interactions? I'll go back to what I said earlier, why are you making a big claim out of your experience. Even of, those you've come across is very limited. It's strange to act as if there's much value in such a minor grouping. In my opinion, you have a different stance on what negatively effect means. I don't think it means it will necessarily make someone consciously, intentionally, or actively act out in a discriminatory way.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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15-08-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 07:05 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I actually agree that there is an imbalance in games. I don't like this new breed of feminism because it's hysterical and sensationalist.... The problem isn't with the points being made but with who are making them and how they're made.

(15-08-2014 07:05 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Representation in games is an issue but Sackesian, Watson and Feminist frequency are not the way forward, they are the BNP of feminism. A more rational voice or two need to cut through the shit.

I am not familiar with Sacksian or Watson, but those two videos from Feminist Frequency seemed quite rational to me and I didn't notice any hint of hysteria or sensationalism. I noticed that she deliberately resisted from using pejorative language or appealing to emotion and quite a few times she made the point that you can point out what's wrong with something yet still recognise its other positive attributes.

I think where the video may have been lacking was in how it did not explicitly describe the long term effects of conditioning. But then people who critique society using terms from the field of sociology aren't often particularly well versed in psychology or neuroscience.

When we learn or experience something new we relate it back to what we already know via association. The objection to the portrayal of women in video games stems from recognition that it's building up an overall perception in the minds of viewers or players that is harmful to the treatment of women in real life.

The same argument is used again and again for pornography, for television, for films, for other races, sexualities, lifestyles and minorities and it is precisely because people now recognise this that we live in a fairer and less prejudiced society than 60 years ago.
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15-08-2014, 07:26 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
Video games are a business. As long as the game sells, no one is going to worry about any group complaining that they are not being portrayed to their liking in a game. The only way that can happen is if the group that complains actually influences sales and eventually developers change the games to satisfy the demand.
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15-08-2014, 07:28 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
Unless you can prove that video games affect the way people think, then you have nothing. Jack Thompson's claims really aren't that different from Anita Sarkeesian's. Unless you can back up that video games affect people's behavior then you have nothing.

Then again, with religion you don't need evidence, you only need faith.

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15-08-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: femism vs geek culture and why I think feminist spining wheels
(15-08-2014 07:08 AM)One Above All Wrote:  Then debunk this:
(15-08-2014 04:53 AM)One Above All Wrote:  Yet I've never felt this, nor have any of my gamer friends. My guess? It's cultural. In my country, only the dumbest of the dumb (usually old people, from my experience, hinting at the cultural aspect of this issue) discriminate against minorities like non-heterosexuals, women, non-whites, disabled people, and so on. The rest of us do not. The USA, on the other hand, has a slight (read: major) problem with catching up with the rest of the modern world when it comes to discrimination and rationality. I call it the only "third-world first-world country" because of this.

How much chance have you had to discriminate? Have you had to select between candidates for a job for example? Have you had the chance to decide who is given promotion? Have you ever mouthed off to your friends in private about some other demographic?

Brain scans have shown us that people have emotional impulses when deciding on how to act and they consciously rationalise it afterwards. How do you know that the way that you act isn't influenced by your own prejudices?

By denying that discrimination exists when there is plenty of hard evidence that it does reinforces discrimination in society. That means that you are part of the problem.


Now debunk what I am saying about how the brain functions.
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