god traps the wise
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10-05-2016, 07:31 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(10-05-2016 06:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
purpledaisies Wrote:Are you saying that god wanted Adam and eve to eat from the tree? Or what? I can't make heads or tales out of what you wrote.
Yes, it was part of His plan. It was very important that they will CHOOSE to eat that fruit.
purpledaisias Wrote:And if god did want Adam and eve to eat the fruit then why punish?
He didn't punish them.
purpledaisias Wrote:And if you say free will
I said nothing about free will. What is "free will"?

He did punish Adam and eve by telling them to get out of the garden of eden and said that woman are to bare pain during labor and man had to work to survive. Its on the bible. That is the punishment! Hello!

So you are telling me that you would put a sucker in a babu's hand and tell them not to ear it then smack them when they do? Because that is what god did with the tree! As a parent how could I do that to my child?
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10-05-2016, 09:03 PM
RE: god traps the wise
purpledaisies Wrote:He did punish Adam and eve by telling them to get out of the garden of eden and said that woman are to bare pain during labor and man had to work to survive. Its on the bible. That is the punishment! Hello!
You assume that it was a punishment but the Bible doesn't say such thing.
It was part of God's plan that men learn to make choices between good and evil. How is it possible to make this kind of choices if there is no evil?
It has to be evil and good.
God could not force Adam and Eve to be subject to evil, they had to choose it.
So, they did. They chose to have knowledge of good and evil. God made sure that this would happen. If they never partake of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil God's plan would fail and that would be bad for Adam and Eve.
Why did God cast them out of the garden? It was not possible to be subject to evil in the garden. So, they had to go where it was possible to learn.
Why didn't God let them eat fruit from the tree of life? If they did it they would live forever in their sin. To live forever in a sin/sins = punishment.
Another reason, if they ate fruit from the tree of life God's plan would fail, they would never learn to make choices between good and evil.
When they ate forbidden fruit they didn't know that breaking God's law was evil. That is why they could not be punished.
So, what happened in the garden of Eden was very, very important. What happened to Adam and Eve was not a horrible thing it was GOOD thing.
It is very important to learn to make choices between good and evil.
purpledaisies Wrote:So you are telling me that you would put a sucker in a babu's hand and tell them not to ear it then smack them when they do? Because that is what god did with the tree! As a parent how could I do that to my child?
No, this is not what I am telling. Not even close.

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10-05-2016, 09:45 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(10-05-2016 09:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  God could not force Adam and Eve to be subject to evil, they had to choose it.
So, they did. They chose to have knowledge of good and evil. God made sure that this would happen.

Soooo... god didn't force them but he made sure it would happen? What is the distinction between those two exactly? And how can they willingly choose to have knowledge of good and evil when they don't even know what those two things are? It's like a newborn baby grabbing something just out of reach. It has no idea what it is, it is just naturally curious. They didn't choose anything, it was forced upon them by god. No matter how you sugar coat it.
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11-05-2016, 12:15 AM
RE: god traps the wise
Dark Wanderer Wrote:Soooo... god didn't force them but he made sure it would happen?
Sorry, it was wrong choice of words.
I wanted to say this: He prepared everything that fall of Adam could be possible. If Adam and Eve chose to obey that law God's plan would fail. God would never force them to eat the fruit.
Adam and Eve would live forever in the garden having no progression, they would never had children. Everything would remain the same.
That would be OK. But God's plan is so much better than just live in the garden.

Dark Wanderer Wrote:And how can they willingly choose to have knowledge of good and evil when they don't even know what those two things are?
I am more than happy to answer this great question. Serpent told Eve that if she partake of the fruit she will become LIKE GODS knowing good and evil.
Eve wanted to have new knowledge her Father/Gods had. She wanted to become like Him/Gods. You don't need to know what good and what evil are to have this desire.
Now, Adam. Eve already partook of the fruit. What did she tell Adam when she gave him the fruit? What did she tell him that he made his choice?
Something she told him that made him to decide to leave his Father and to leave his Mother and to CLEAVE to his wife.
Do you know what Eve told him?

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11-05-2016, 12:36 AM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Dark Wanderer Wrote:Soooo... god didn't force them but he made sure it would happen?
Sorry, it was wrong choice of words.
I wanted to say this: He prepared everything that fall of Adam could be possible. If Adam and Eve chose to obey that law God's plan would fail. God would never force them to eat the fruit.
Adam and Eve would live forever in the garden having no progression, they would never had children. Everything would remain the same.
That would be OK. But God's plan is so much better than just live in the garden.

Dark Wanderer Wrote:And how can they willingly choose to have knowledge of good and evil when they don't even know what those two things are?
I am more than happy to answer this great question. Serpent told Eve that if she partake of the fruit she will become LIKE GODS knowing good and evil.
Eve wanted to have new knowledge her Father/Gods had. She wanted to become like Him/Gods. You don't need to know what good and what evil are to have this desire.
Now, Adam. Eve already partook of the fruit. What did she tell Adam when she gave him the fruit? What did she tell him that he made his choice?
Something she told him that made him to decide to leave his Father and to leave his Mother and to CLEAVE to his wife.
Do you know what Eve told him?

Nope.
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11-05-2016, 12:38 AM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:36 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Nope.
I know. Smile

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11-05-2016, 12:38 AM
RE: god traps the wise
Sounds like "god's plan" hinged entirely on the serpent telling Eve. Why not just tell Eve himself?

Also, you believe that snakes can talk?

Why couldn't they have children in the garden?
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11-05-2016, 12:39 AM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:38 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 12:36 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Nope.
I know. Smile

Do tell.
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11-05-2016, 01:26 AM
RE: god traps the wise
Dark Wanderer Wrote:Sounds like "god's plan" hinged entirely on the serpent telling Eve.
Yes. You got it. Without Satan Eve would never be tempted to eat the fruit.
Dark Wanderer Wrote:Why not just tell Eve himself?
I have to explain some details of the plan of God. Part of the plan that Adam and Eve learn to make choices between good and evil. To make it possible they have to live in the world where there is evil. God could not force Adam and Eve to live in the world where there is evil because only fallen people can live in this kind of world. How could Adam and Eve become fallen? They had to break God's law. As soon as they do this they can live in the fallen world/world where there is evil.
So, God gave the law. If they choose to break it they fall.
If God told them Himself to eat the fruit then they would never break the law. They wouldn't become fallen, they wouldn't live in this world.
Dark Wanderer Wrote:Also, you believe that snakes can talk?
It was Lucifer or Satan who talked to them. But prophets call Satan "serpent". So, there was no snake.
"Serpent" is symbol of God of Israel. Then why did prophets call Satan "serpent"? Because Satan pretended to be like God by making promise only God has power to make : surely, you will not die".
Dark Wanderer Wrote:Why couldn't they have children in the garden?

It has something to do with their physical bodies before fall. Their bodies were different. God revealed that there was no blood in their veins and they didn't have seed. Fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil caused their bodies to change. Their bodies became mortal with blood.
By becoming mortal or fallen men they could start to live in this world and have children.
But there is a reason why God gave the law to multiply and replenish in the garden despite they were not able to obey it.

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11-05-2016, 01:35 AM
RE: god traps the wise
Sorry, I can't continue this discussion. My mind is hurting from so much nonsense. Unless of course you can verify and prove any of what you are saying.
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