god traps the wise
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11-05-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Because Adam and Eve broke the law they became mortals. God explained to them what it means to be mortals. To be mortals means to go thought all kind of misery including physical pain.
God cursed serpent(Satan) He did NOT curse Adam and Eve. There is no even one word telling us that God punished them, or that He cursed them.
God cursed Satan and He cursed the earth. Why the earth? So, Adam and Eve can experience things that only mortals can experience. They CHOSE to have this experience.

So, I will say again: when God said that Eve will have pain and that their life is not going to be fun any more He did NOT say that it was a punishment.
But God told them (preview) what they will have to experience as MORTALS. And they CHOSE to become mortal men.

P.S. OK, I will go back to school and I will get more education.

Show me in the bible where god "explains" to Adam and eve this. And just because you explain that there will consequences doesn't mean that the consequences isn't a punishment. I told my kids if they broke the rules the consequences and it IS a punishment. How can you get this concept?
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11-05-2016, 01:04 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 11:42 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 03:55 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do you think Cain killing Abel was apart of Gods plan and do you not believe that Cain was punished?
no and yes

How was it not apart of Gods plan.. How did an omniscient being not plan out the actions of the children that God planed out the actions for in adam and eve.

Cain himself also calls it a punishment, the curse of god is said to be a punishment.

I think you've read and took the writings of Paradise Lost too much as scripture as so many others apparently have if you think God elaborated these concepts to adam and eve. In that text he did, idk perhaps Mormons think John Milton was a real prophet who was told the story in more detail by god in his dreams. Is that something Mormons believe?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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11-05-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. OK, I will go back to school and I will get more education.

First thing you might want to do is look up the word punishment in the dictionary, it's apparent you have no idea what the word means.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-05-2016, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2016 01:16 PM by Leo.)
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 11:42 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 03:55 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do you think Cain killing Abel was apart of Gods plan and do you not believe that Cain was punished?
no and yes

What do you mean ? Chuck Norris yes or Chuck Norris no? Chuck Norris deals in absolutes . You are with him or against him. If you are against him the roundhouse kick will send you to oblivion.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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11-05-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 01:05 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. OK, I will go back to school and I will get more education.

First thing you might want to do is look up the word punishment in the dictionary, it's apparent you have no idea what the word means.

I know right. I read her response to my husband and he said "does she know what punishment means"? Apparently not!
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11-05-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(09-05-2016 07:37 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  and she said "Satan wants you to be happy, that way you will never know pain and then seek god."
Sounds straight out of the first God's Not Dead; there's a scene with Dean Cain's character visiting his mother with dementia who can't even remember that she had chicken every meal through the film and monologues at her about how she's the best person he knows and look what God has done to her, meanwhile he doesn't believe and has everything. Then the old woman with dementia looks over at him and explains that Satan gives us good things to tempt us from God, but to damn us eternally.
--
To continue Purpledaisies quoting of Genesis 3:
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

The ground being cursed and made to produce thorns, thistles, and laborious toil due to one's actions sounds like a punishment to me.

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11-05-2016, 01:41 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2016 01:46 PM by Stevil.)
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  But God told them (preview) what they will have to experience as MORTALS. And they CHOSE to become mortal men.
But they were already mortal.

All life is mortal.
Evolution wouldn't work without death.

When we were simple single celled organisms we incurred a limited lifetime, when we were fish we had limited lifetime, when we were pre-apes we had limited lifetime.
At what point did your god make humans immortal?

Where did your god make it clear to Adam and Eve that if they ate the fruit they would become mortals?

Your god (in the bible) said they would die that very day, but they didn't.
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11-05-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 01:37 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 07:37 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  and she said "Satan wants you to be happy, that way you will never know pain and then seek god."
Sounds straight out of the first God's Not Dead; there's a scene with Dean Cain's character visiting his mother with dementia who can't even remember that she had chicken every meal through the film and monologues at her about how she's the best person he knows and look what God has done to her, meanwhile he doesn't believe and has everything. Then the old woman with dementia looks over at him and explains that Satan gives us good things to tempt us from God, but to damn us eternally.
--
To continue Purpledaisies quoting of Genesis 3:
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

The ground being cursed and made to produce thorns, thistles, and laborious toil due to one's actions sounds like a punishment to me.

I have a question? Did Adam and eve eat before god curse man to eat off the land? Of course they did why else would they have a reason to eat the fruit if they didn't get hungry and wanted to eat something. So for god to say that man will be cursed to eat off the land for all his days sounds very very odd to me?
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11-05-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 01:45 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  I have a question? Did Adam and eve eat before god curse man to eat off the land? Of course they did why else would they have a reason to eat the fruit if they didn't get hungry and wanted to eat something. So for god to say that man will be cursed to eat off the land for all his days sounds very very odd to me?

The way I've always heard it explained in Sunday School and sermons and such is that the land pretty much just bore fruit, veggies, etc. for Adam and Eve with no labor, and that weeds and other issues, and having to actually work in farming was the result of the Fall.

I feel like adding the caveat that since I'm not a Biblical literalist, my thoughts on the interpretations I was raised with, could be flawed.

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11-05-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 01:50 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 01:45 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  I have a question? Did Adam and eve eat before god curse man to eat off the land? Of course they did why else would they have a reason to eat the fruit if they didn't get hungry and wanted to eat something. So for god to say that man will be cursed to eat off the land for all his days sounds very very odd to me?

The way I've always heard it explained in Sunday School and sermons and such is that the land pretty much just bore fruit, veggies, etc. for Adam and Eve with no labor, and that weeds and other issues, and having to actually work in farming was the result of the Fall.

I feel like adding the caveat that since I'm not a Biblical literalist, my thoughts on the interpretations I was raised with, could be flawed.

That generally was the story I heard during my Pentecostal upbringing. When you mentioned the lack of weeds, I just realized another blatant departure from reality this story indulges in. Weeds were around long before humans! Facepalm This story has layers of ignorant assertions that run deep, it always seems to reveal something else stupid in it every time I read it.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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