god traps the wise
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11-05-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 02:04 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  That generally was the story I heard during my Pentecostal upbringing. When you mentioned the lack of weeds, I just realized another blatant departure from reality this story indulges in. Weeds were around long before humans! Facepalm This story has layers of ignorant assertions that run deep, it always seems to reveal something else stupid in it every time I read it.

Hadn't even thought of that...

Need to think of a witty signature.
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11-05-2016, 04:28 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(09-05-2016 11:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  Scriptures are not science books.

I vote this the understatement of the day. Big Grin

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-05-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Because Adam and Eve broke the law they became mortals. God explained to them what it means to be mortals. To be mortals means to go thought all kind of misery including physical pain.
God cursed serpent(Satan) He did NOT curse Adam and Eve. There is no even one word telling us that God punished them, or that He cursed them.
God cursed Satan and He cursed the earth. Why the earth? So, Adam and Eve can experience things that only mortals can experience. They CHOSE to have this experience.

So, I will say again: when God said that Eve will have pain and that their life is not going to be fun any more He did NOT say that it was a punishment.
But God told them (preview) what they will have to experience as MORTALS. And they CHOSE to become mortal men.

P.S. OK, I will go back to school and I will get more education.

What it said is that they didn't know the difference between right and wrong, so how could they be cursed for doing wrong? Riddle us that one.
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11-05-2016, 05:23 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 05:06 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Because Adam and Eve broke the law they became mortals. God explained to them what it means to be mortals. To be mortals means to go thought all kind of misery including physical pain.
God cursed serpent(Satan) He did NOT curse Adam and Eve. There is no even one word telling us that God punished them, or that He cursed them.
God cursed Satan and He cursed the earth. Why the earth? So, Adam and Eve can experience things that only mortals can experience. They CHOSE to have this experience.

So, I will say again: when God said that Eve will have pain and that their life is not going to be fun any more He did NOT say that it was a punishment.
But God told them (preview) what they will have to experience as MORTALS. And they CHOSE to become mortal men.

P.S. OK, I will go back to school and I will get more education.

What it said is that they didn't know the difference between right and wrong, so how could they be cursed for doing wrong? Riddle us that one.

"All of the terrible things that god does magically turn into good things because god."

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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11-05-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 05:06 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Because Adam and Eve broke the law they became mortals. God explained to them what it means to be mortals. To be mortals means to go thought all kind of misery including physical pain.
God cursed serpent(Satan) He did NOT curse Adam and Eve. There is no even one word telling us that God punished them, or that He cursed them.
God cursed Satan and He cursed the earth. Why the earth? So, Adam and Eve can experience things that only mortals can experience. They CHOSE to have this experience.

So, I will say again: when God said that Eve will have pain and that their life is not going to be fun any more He did NOT say that it was a punishment.
But God told them (preview) what they will have to experience as MORTALS. And they CHOSE to become mortal men.

P.S. OK, I will go back to school and I will get more education.

What it said is that they didn't know the difference between right and wrong, so how could they be cursed for doing wrong? Riddle us that one.

She's saying they weren't really cursed. It's a good thing that they were tossed out of paradise, so that they can learn and grow. Ultimately becoming gods themselves. I'm starting to understand Alla's particular brand of delusion.
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11-05-2016, 08:25 PM
RE: god traps the wise
Stevil Wrote:But they were already mortal.
All life is mortal.
Look, I understand that there is no any evidence that there are immortal beings.
I just believe that they exist. I have my reasons to believe. But who cares what I believe? Right? I am just saying that modern science does not disprove my belief. Not yet, at least.
Stevil Wrote:Where did your god make it clear to Adam and Eve that if they ate the fruit they would become mortals?
There are no clear words of God in the Bible that they would become mortals.
Stevil Wrote:Your god (in the bible) said they would die that very day, but they didn't.
They did. The same moment they ate the fruit. "Fall of Adam" or "to be in fallen state" = spiritual DEATH. Spiritual death = separation from God. They were separated from God the same day.

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12-05-2016, 02:44 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2016 02:48 AM by Stevil.)
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Stevil Wrote:But they were already mortal.
All life is mortal.
Look, I understand that there is no any evidence that there are immortal beings.
The problem isn't that there is no evidence FOR them being immortal.
The problem is that all known life is mortal, that all complex life forms can reproduce (except if something is wrong with them). It HAS to be this way. Evolution relies upon there being a passing on of genetic material, it relies upon there being a variance of genetic material. It relies up there being a conflict, a struggle for survival, it relies upon a struggle of the fittest. Those with a more likelihood of surviving and reproducing are likely to become abundant, those that are less fit, will die off and become scarce. If it wasn't this way. If there was no death then we wouldn't have evolved. A human is a highly complex organism, it has evolved very much. Why would it be mortal for a 4 billion year lineage, all of a sudden become immortal for a day or two and then go back to being mortal? How would you even know that they had become immortal? Did Adam fall of a cliff and live? Did he walk through fire and not get burnt? Why would his carbon based flesh not burn? By what mechanism would it be immune to the chemical reactions that occur under heat and flame? What if we chopped his head off, would his head continue to be alive? How would he breath? If he doesn't need to breath to live, then why would he have lungs? If he doesn't need to eat to live then why would he have a stomach? It seems if the god gave him these things then either it was a wasteful design or Adam needed to do these things to live.


What gives you the idea that he was immortal all of a sudden?
I know that you would like to believe it, but it contradicts everything we know about life forms. You are "special pleading" which is a logical fallacy.

Is your belief based on logical fallacies?
Anyway, can't you just believe that god created Adam somehow, perhaps by starting off the universe is just the right way, he knew eventually Adam would evolve and then he did some magic and gave Adam a special inheritable soul (a soul that is indistinguishable in every way from a non human soul). That belief would be at least more plausible than your current belief. It would still be unprovable, unfalsifiable and it would avoid this strangeness of believing adam's ancestors were mortal, then all of a sudden adam was immortal for a day and then he went back to being mortal. That's just silly.

Anyway, I am sorry for calling your belief silly. But that is how I feel right now. I'll get over it, and so will you.

(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am just saying that modern science does not disprove my belief. Not yet, at least.
It does in a way, you have to resort to special pleading and that is a logical fallacy.
Evolution proves that there wasn't a time just before humans fall that death was non existent on earth. That is not possible.


(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Stevil Wrote:Where did your god make it clear to Adam and Eve that if they ate the fruit they would become mortals?
There are no clear words of God in the Bible that they would become mortals.
Then the god deceived them. The god was not clear that they were choosing to be mortal, and yet you tell us that this is the choice god thinks that they made.

All they did was eat a fruit, they had no idea it was wrong, they had no idea of the consequences. They really didn't have the choice that you presume they made.


(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Stevil Wrote:Your god (in the bible) said they would die that very day, but they didn't.
They did. The same moment they ate the fruit. "Fall of Adam" or "to be in fallen state" = spiritual DEATH. Spiritual death = separation from God. They were separated from God the same day.
That's also a very special explaination.

When the god told them that they would die, how do you think they understood that message to mean? Did they have any idea what spiritual death would be? Do you think that instead they thought it meant physical death? Did the god yet again deceive them?

How do we distinguish the difference between a person that is spiritually alive and one that is spiritually dead? Are you spiritually dead? Am I? Is my cat spiritually dead?
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12-05-2016, 09:10 AM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Stevil Wrote:But they were already mortal.
All life is mortal.
Look, I understand that there is no any evidence that there are immortal beings.
I just believe that they exist. I have my reasons to believe. But who cares what I believe? Right? I am just saying that modern science does not disprove my belief. Not yet, at least.
Stevil Wrote:Where did your god make it clear to Adam and Eve that if they ate the fruit they would become mortals?
There are no clear words of Chuck Norris in the Chuck Norris facts that they would become mortals.
Stevil Wrote:Your god (in the bible) said they would die that very day, but they didn't.
They did. The same moment they ate the fruit. "Fall of Adam" or "to be in fallen state" = spiritual DEATH. Spiritual death = Round house kick of Chuck Norris and oblivion . They were destroyed by Chuck Norris the same day.
Alla is on the path of accepting Chuck Norris as the supreme God and savior.Thumbsup

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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12-05-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: god traps the wise
(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  Look, I understand that there is no any evidence that there are immortal beings.
I just believe that they exist. I have my reasons to believe. But who cares what I believe? Right? I am just saying that modern science does not disprove my belief. Not yet, at least.

With this kind of logic you could believe literally anything. Science has never disproved that there are special reindeer that can fly, Santa Claus is real! Science has never proven unicorns aren't living in some dark forest in Scotland, they must be real and can grant any wish you ask of them!

You have your reasons for believing which is fine and I can respect that but a simple belief that perhaps a man can be immortal doesn't really matter all that much, the issue is when you start to deny science and dismiss decades of research in paleontology and genetics to reinforce your beliefs because they make you feel good. In the end this behavior is disingenuous and you are simply lying to yourself because your personal reasons to believe myths are more important to you than the truth. Not the truth you like to believe, the actual truth of our reality and nature. This is not a good thing to be proud of, it just makes it impossible to have an honest discussion with you on anything science related since your reasons will always win out in the end.

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12-05-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: god traps the wise
It's been very quite for 2 days now. However one friend that was accusing me of attacking religion, which I didnt, needed to hear why I wasn't attacking. It needed to be explained because she seriously thought that what I was doing was attacking. She had been taught her whole life that when people ask questions its an attack. Her dad was a preacher that couldn't keep his hands off other woman. He just died about a week ago.
I kept it very calm and polite however I made it very clear that I wasn't attacking nearing questioning the sign and why I was questioning it. I think I had her think since she hasn't said anything else. That's normally a sign she is thinking about it. I've known her for over 20 years and no our friendship will not be effected. She is just super sensitive right now.
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