how can i explain this?
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04-04-2014, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2014 12:43 PM by sophonian.)
how can i explain this?
Since I read this I have tried to find an explanation, but I have no found.

In Eusebius works there is a mention of pagan historians Thallus and Phlegon, and both said that there was and earthquake and an eclipse who lasted from the sixth hour to nine hour by the very time of Jesus death. The Gospels said that the sun darkened at the sixth hour to the nine, and the earthquake is also mentioned. These facts were mentioned in Old Testamento prophets, in Amos 8. Dont you think there is so much coincidence?

I read this in wikipedia. "Crucifixion darkness" is the name of the space.
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04-04-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: no
The Gospels were written at a much later date than the actual crucifixion, although there's no evidence Jesus even existed, let alone the crucifixion.

Solar eclipses happen on regular, predictable cycles. If there was an eclipse at the time then it would be an event that could be mathematically predicted, and would be in line with all prior and subsequent eclipses.

An eclipse (technically an occultation) is when the Moon passes in front of the Sun's disk... So, they can only occur under certain circumstances. For one to appear out of line with all prior and subsequent eclipses would require the Moon to be moved to a different part of the sky.

Besides... As I understand it, Jesus is supposed to have been crucified just after the Passover festival. Passover is always timed to be around the night of the full Moon... Eclipses can only occur at new Moon.

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04-04-2014, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2014 01:10 PM by RobbyPants.)
RE: how can i explain this?
What exactly are we supposed to explain? Is it possible that there was an eclipse and an earth quake? Yeah, those things happen all the time.

As for Amos 8:9, it says:

Quote:9 “In that day,” declares the Sovereign Lord,

“I will make the sun go down at noon
and darken the earth in broad daylight.

The sun didn't go down at noon. That's not the same thing as an eclipse. Looks like a failed prophesy to me! Or if not, one so vague as to be useless. Also, the context of the rest of Amos 8 doesn't look like it's saying anything related to Jesus' crucifixion, so, I don't see how these are even related, let alone a coincidence.
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04-04-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
(04-04-2014 12:39 PM)sophonian Wrote:  Since I read this I have tried to find an explanation, but I have no found.

In Eusebius works there is a mention of pagan historians Thallus and Phlegon, and both said that there was and earthquake and an eclipse who lasted from the sixth hour to nine hour by the very time of Jesus death. The Gospels said that the sun darkened at the sixth hour to the nine, and the earthquake is also mentioned. These facts were mentioned in Old Testamento prophets, in Amos 8. Dont you think there is so much coincidence?

I read this in wikipedia. "Crucifixion darkness" is the name of the space.

Easy. The people who wrote the new testament and who also had read the old testament put those bits in to their already embellished and made up story. Don't you think that that scenario is possible and more plausible?

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04-04-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
Its also possible that the Gospel writers deliberately chose an eclipse date for the crucifixion, being ignorant of what an eclipse actually is and the contradiction between Passover and and a solar eclipse.

It wouldn't be surprising if the same was done for the Star of Bethlehem... The story being written at a later date and attributed to astronomical events.

That's how astrologers work.

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04-04-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
(04-04-2014 01:05 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What exactly are we supposed to explain? Is it possible that there was an eclipse and an earth quake? Yeah, those things happen all the time.

As for Amos 8:9, it says:

Quote:9 “In that day,” declares the Sovereign Lord,

“I will make the sun go down at noon
and darken the earth in broad daylight.

The sun didn't go down at noon. That's not the same thing as an eclipse. Looks like a failed prophesy to me! Or if not, one so vague as to be useless. Also, the context of the rest of Amos 8 doesn't look like it's saying anything related to Jesus' crucifixion, so, I don't see how these are even related, let alone a coincidence.

All it shows is people's ignorance of astronomy at the time, with a belief in geocentrism.

For the sun to suddenly "go down" at noon in Jerusalem, would mean the sun suddenly rising somewhere else.

Just as the sun standing still for Joshua would mean the sun failing to rise for someone else...

Yet Chinese astronomers don't mention anything strange happening at that time. And you can bet that if the sun rose several hours late, or early ... The Chinese would have written it down.

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04-04-2014, 01:26 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
Thanks for all the answers.

I think the sixth hour is noon. I dont remember where I read but sixth hour is not 18:00.

Is Astrology a forbidden science in jewish culture? So how could they anticipate the eclipse?
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04-04-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
(04-04-2014 01:26 PM)sophonian Wrote:  Thanks for all the answers.

I think the sixth hour is noon. I dont remember where I read but sixth hour is not 18:00.

Is Astrology a forbidden science in jewish culture? So how could they anticipate the eclipse?

Astrology isn't a science to start with... Its superstition.

Astronomy however is a science. The Hebrew Calendar is astronomically based. Jewish festivals and events are timed to occur in conjunction with astronomical events.

Whether or not they understood the cause of an eclipse, they would have certainly noticed them and recorded them.

People then (and even today) thought astronomical events were omens or signs from God, so they took note of them.

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04-04-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
(04-04-2014 01:26 PM)sophonian Wrote:  Thanks for all the answers.

I think the sixth hour is noon. I dont remember where I read but sixth hour is not 18:00.

Is Astrology a forbidden science in jewish culture? So how could they anticipate the eclipse?

In the jewish tradition yes, the day is measured from the time of sunrise, thus it would have been the sixth hour from sunrise.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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04-04-2014, 05:37 PM
RE: how can i explain this?
Another thing that makes me doubt about all this stuff is what Tertullian has to say. Is he saying that he has read in pagan archives another descripction of what happened in 32 a.c?
" In the same hour, too, the light of day was withdrawn, when the sun at the very time was in his meridian blaze. Those who were not aware that this had been predicted about Christ, no doubt thought it an eclipse. You yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives"
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