how is it that heat occurs naturally?
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10-09-2012, 06:38 AM
how is it that heat occurs naturally?
just like water and ice does.


here is the kids initial question:

If heat isn't a property of nature, then how is it that heat occurs naturally. From stars, the earths core, fire, and to radioactive elements?


Does anyone want to assist the kid?
Be sure to give him a lolly pop
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10-09-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
[Image: 51FVTvmgPmL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-stic..._OU01_.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Thermodynamics-For...1118002911

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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10-09-2012, 10:13 AM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
That's an interesting question. Technically, heat is a by-product when a chemical reaction occurs. For instance, energy is released in the form of heat when bonds are formed. Yes, heat occurs naturally if an exothermic reaction is spontaneous (without the need for an external force or influence). For radioactive decay, the kinetic and potential energy of the alpha, beta or gamma rays are being converted into thermal energy. In summary, energy is a property of nature, and heat is one form of it.

You know Bishadi, you shown some improvement in your recent posts (minus the personal attacks) in terms of sentence structure. It's more understandable and thank you if you are putting in effort.

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10-09-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
(10-09-2012 10:13 AM)robotworld Wrote:  That's an interesting question. Technically, heat is a by-product when a chemical reaction occurs. For instance, energy is released in the form of heat when bonds are formed.
and for a bond to occur what is making even a single electron jump shells (see bohr analogy)?

what is it, that is released and captured at EVERY exchange?

see the p680 of photosynthesis if you like.

Quote: Yes, heat occurs naturally if an exothermic reaction is spontaneous (without the need for an external force or influence).

no such thing

you ACCEPT that, while some dont (kind of like a religious wingnut claiming, 'well god did it'; same thing to me)
Quote: For radioactive decay, the kinetic and potential energy of the alpha, beta or gamma rays
no such thing as alpha/beta 'rays' unless on a sign

Quote: are being converted into thermal energy.
YES, em (energy) is being released and is affecting its environment.

aye.... that is what is affecting ALL of it; em in one wavelength or another.

Note that there is a thread on this forum/here about how 'em' (emf) fields impose motion to mass.

ya getting edumacated... enjoy!
Quote: In summary, energy is a property of nature, and heat is one form of it.
the energy is the em upon the mass.

2 facts: the fields and the energy combining each structure (molecule) within the measured body (specimen) are what can be considered the 'energy' (state) of the mass. (see lavoisier combined with bohr's analogy)

Quote:You know Bishadi, you shown some improvement in your recent posts (minus the personal attacks) in terms of sentence structure. It's more understandable and thank you if you are putting in effort.

speak english dood

let me know when you read up on the items mentioned
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10-09-2012, 11:09 AM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
(10-09-2012 10:30 AM)Bishadi Wrote:  
(10-09-2012 10:13 AM)robotworld Wrote:  That's an interesting question. Technically, heat is a by-product when a chemical reaction occurs. For instance, energy is released in the form of heat when bonds are formed.
and for a bond to occur what is making even a single electron jump shells (see bohr analogy)?

what is it, that is released and captured at EVERY exchange?

see the p680 of photosynthesis if you like.

Quote: Yes, heat occurs naturally if an exothermic reaction is spontaneous (without the need for an external force or influence).

no such thing

you ACCEPT that, while some dont (kind of like a religious wingnut claiming, 'well god did it'; same thing to me)
Quote: For radioactive decay, the kinetic and potential energy of the alpha, beta or gamma rays
no such thing as alpha/beta 'rays' unless on a sign

Quote: are being converted into thermal energy.
YES, em (energy) is being released and is affecting its environment.

aye.... that is what is affecting ALL of it; em in one wavelength or another.

Note that there is a thread on this forum/here about how 'em' (emf) fields impose motion to mass.

ya getting edumacated... enjoy!
Quote: In summary, energy is a property of nature, and heat is one form of it.
the energy is the em upon the mass.

2 facts: the fields and the energy combining each structure (molecule) within the measured body (specimen) are what can be considered the 'energy' (state) of the mass. (see lavoisier combined with bohr's analogy)

Quote:You know Bishadi, you shown some improvement in your recent posts (minus the personal attacks) in terms of sentence structure. It's more understandable and thank you if you are putting in effort.

speak english dood

let me know when you read up on the items mentioned

There are various models which describe bond formation, for instance the molecular orbital theory. The Bohr analogy, if I am not mistaken, applies to only hydrogen-like atoms. Excitation of electrons allow electrons to enter quantum shells of higher energy levels. Energy in the form of EM waves are released as the electron de-excites. P680 is a primary electron acceptor of Photosystem II, and the light harvesting stage before that transfers energy from one chlorophyll to another through inductive resonance.

It's good that you question current concepts but you need to back it up. For instance, can you explain why passive diffusion isn't a spontaneous process?

Alpha rays - Helium nuclei, beta rays - electrons. Yes, they still have energy associated to them.

Electromagnetic fields, generated by moving charged objects, can affect the behaviour of objects within the field. Energy comes in different forms. I'm curious, how does gravitational potential energy involve EM fields of any kind? From what I understand, GPE is derived from the interactions between two masses.

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
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10-09-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
(10-09-2012 11:09 AM)robotworld Wrote:  There are various models which describe bond formation, for instance the molecular orbital theory. The Bohr analogy, if I am not mistaken, applies to only hydrogen-like atoms.

and the basis of descibing planck's constant used in defining energy itself; a photon
Quote: Excitation of electrons allow electrons to enter quantum shells of higher energy levels.
and what 'excites' them are the em fields, within its environment.

are you familiar will van der waals? The mass, dont hit, the fields associate, within an environment of 'fields'.
Quote: Energy in the form of EM waves are released as the electron de-excites.
and each release is at various wavelengths for each reaction.

basic
Quote: P680 is a primary electron acceptor
what?

that quad iron stucture is capturing 1 wavelength the 680nm kind of like hemoglobin to us, 1 wavelength.
Quote:of Photosystem II, and the light harvesting stage before that transfers energy from one chlorophyll to another through inductive resonance.
yep

and why i brought it up. The actual wavelength to the actual stucture the p680 of the world of photosynthesis.
Quote:It's good that you question current concepts but you need to back it up. For instance,
the for instance was the p680.

Quote:can you explain why passive diffusion isn't a spontaneous process?
resonant energy transfer.

i know it aint spontaneous.

basic.

Quote:Alpha rays - Helium nuclei, beta rays - electrons. Yes, they still have energy associated to them.
stop.

stick to one at a time.
Quote:Electromagnetic fields, generated by moving charged objects, can affect the behaviour of objects within the field.
yep


Quote: Energy comes in different forms. I'm curious, how does gravitational potential energy involve EM fields of any kind?

if you heat a piece of iron and then cut it in half, they are still entangled, (shared energy between states, anytime/place) ie... you can take a portion out of its fields, but still associated to the states shared.

remember the em spectrum is hugenormous. A field can be super tiny and then others are enclosing the galaxies/universe.

keep your feet on the ground, its easy
Quote: From what I understand, GPE is derived from the interactions between two masses.
and you and are are interaction by, light, right?
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10-09-2012, 11:55 AM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
if you heat a piece of iron and then cut it in half, they are still entangled, (shared energy between states, anytime/place) ie... you can take a portion out of its fields, but still associated to the states shared. (that's a rough analogy: think of drops of water oil, which associate? which have like potentials? do they move towards each other?



remember the em spectrum is hugenormous. A field can be super tiny and then others are enclosing the galaxies/universe.

keep your feet on the ground, its easy
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10-09-2012, 12:04 PM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
(10-09-2012 11:55 AM)Bishadi Wrote:  remember the em spectrum is hugenormous. A field can be super tiny and then others are enclosing the galaxies/universe.

keep your feet on the ground, its easy

I think I understand what you're trying to say. Unfortunately, fields and waves are not the same thing. I'm sorry, they aren't.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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10-09-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
(10-09-2012 12:04 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(10-09-2012 11:55 AM)Bishadi Wrote:  remember the em spectrum is hugenormous. A field can be super tiny and then others are enclosing the galaxies/universe.

keep your feet on the ground, its easy

I think I understand what you're trying to say. Unfortunately, fields and waves are not the same thing. I'm sorry, they aren't.

do resonant waves occilate?

does a/c current occilate?

does rf frequency transmiters occilate?

is heat just an occilation, too?

or will you ignor, when found to be almost 'stupid' to the correlation of all this science?
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10-09-2012, 12:42 PM
RE: how is it that heat occurs naturally?
(10-09-2012 11:53 AM)Bishadi Wrote:  
(10-09-2012 11:09 AM)robotworld Wrote:  There are various models which describe bond formation, for instance the molecular orbital theory. The Bohr analogy, if I am not mistaken, applies to only hydrogen-like atoms.

and the basis of descibing planck's constant used in defining energy itself; a photon
Quote: Excitation of electrons allow electrons to enter quantum shells of higher energy levels.
and what 'excites' them are the em fields, within its environment.

are you familiar will van der waals? The mass, dont hit, the fields associate, within an environment of 'fields'.
Quote: Energy in the form of EM waves are released as the electron de-excites.
and each release is at various wavelengths for each reaction.

basic
Quote: P680 is a primary electron acceptor
what?

that quad iron stucture is capturing 1 wavelength the 680nm kind of like hemoglobin to us, 1 wavelength.
Quote:of Photosystem II, and the light harvesting stage before that transfers energy from one chlorophyll to another through inductive resonance.
yep

and why i brought it up. The actual wavelength to the actual stucture the p680 of the world of photosynthesis.
Quote:It's good that you question current concepts but you need to back it up. For instance,
the for instance was the p680.

Quote:can you explain why passive diffusion isn't a spontaneous process?
resonant energy transfer.

i know it aint spontaneous.

basic.

Quote:Alpha rays - Helium nuclei, beta rays - electrons. Yes, they still have energy associated to them.
stop.

stick to one at a time.
Quote:Electromagnetic fields, generated by moving charged objects, can affect the behaviour of objects within the field.
yep


Quote: Energy comes in different forms. I'm curious, how does gravitational potential energy involve EM fields of any kind?

if you heat a piece of iron and then cut it in half, they are still entangled, (shared energy between states, anytime/place) ie... you can take a portion out of its fields, but still associated to the states shared.

remember the em spectrum is hugenormous. A field can be super tiny and then others are enclosing the galaxies/universe.

keep your feet on the ground, its easy
Quote: From what I understand, GPE is derived from the interactions between two masses.
and you and are are interaction by, light, right?

Just realised my mistake. P680 is not the primary electron acceptor in Photosystem II (it's pheophytin). It's more of a complex formed by two chlorophyll (alpha) molecules. An electron within P680 is excited and is transferred to the primary electron acceptor, pheophytin. Electrons are replaced via photolysis of water.

Resonance energy transfer? I thought it's more of the random movement of particles within a medium. Can you elaborate on this point?

I see how you might link up fields and waves together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to say that the oscillation of fields create waves?

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
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