how to use the bible agaisnt itself
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16-02-2016, 11:52 PM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(16-02-2016 05:51 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 05:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  She has yet to refute B-b. Drinking Beverage

There's nothing to refute. I'm all about that B-b. Smile

Thus saith the B-b.

#sigh
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17-02-2016, 05:14 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(19-01-2016 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 07:21 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  I've been trying to find a link or something that points out verses that can be used in debate. I'd like to find things that I can use that the bible says this. Thank so much

Wow. Read it for yourself and not parrot the atheist websites--as if! So many here are getting there arguments from people on here--blind leading the blind.

Why don't you ask the Bible author for His advice? Smile

Q. I read it. It is the greatest tool for forming atheism. I am also a qualified priest. Something I did as a laugh back in the day in order to understand how to fight the great evil known as xianity. I passed with flying colours.

You seem to me to be a person with very little knowledge of actual scripture and come across as an absolute joke. You have no credibility with me, nor any other thinking member of this website.

Your hopeless and infantile debate with Mark Fulton has proven you absolutely ignorant of scripture. My advice to you is to leave this website where you appropriately come across as foolish, and never return.

You are a joke. An idiot and ignorant of your chosen belief system.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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17-02-2016, 08:26 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(16-02-2016 08:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 12:34 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  We have been through this once already. By far the largest single denomination of Christians is Roman Catholicism, and they absolutely do not "post the apocrypha in a separate Bible section", nor do they express any doubts about those books. The original King James Bible did that, and some Protestant Bibles still do, but no Catholic Bible does. Those books are included in the Old Testament along with all the other Old Testament books. They are not separated, segregated, or distinguished in any way. They are simply part of the Old Testament. What part of that don't you understand?

I have a Catholic Bible at home. It certainly does separate the apocrypha and also adds commentary as to the dubious/debated origin of the apocrypha.

I had a lot of things to do last night and this morning, so I didn't get around to checking all my Catholic Bibles. But I did look at a few of them:

Haydock Bible (Douay-Rheims, Challoner Revision)
Jerusalem Bible (original edition)
Jerusalem Bible (Reader's Edition, with Abridged Introductions and Notes)
New Jerusalem Bible (original edition)
New Jerusalem Bible (Reader's Edition)
Didache Bible (RSV-CE)

Every one of these had the so-called Apocrypha incorporated into the main body of the Old Testament. None of them had those books in a separate section. The only one that distinguished these books in any way was the Jerusalem Bible (Reader's Edition), which had an asterisk next to those books in the table of contents, with the following note:

*Some editions of the Bible have not admitted these deuterocanonical books (or parts of books…); or have included them only as Apocrypha.

Note that the original Jerusalem Bible had no such asterisks or notes.

I didn't get a chance to check the notes in all of these, but I did check the original Jerusalem Bible (which is famous for its copious and detailed notes). The only thing it said about these books that has any bearing on this issue is that it is unknown what language they were originally written in.

And that is the real point. The reason these books do not appear in Protestant Bibles is because they do not appear in the Masoretic text of the Jewish Bible or Tanakh, and the only reason they don't appear there is because the original manuscripts are not in Hebrew. This was an important issue for the Masoretes. But it is solely a linguistic issue. Jews do not regard these books as "false" in any way. They were all included in the Septuagint, which was compiled and translated by Alexandrian Jews. Note that the Septuagint is the basis for all Catholic and Orthodox Bibles.

If you have a "Catholic" Bible that segregates these books, please let us in on the secret of which Catholic Bible it is. I would be willing to bet it's not a Catholic Bible at all.
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17-02-2016, 08:42 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-02-2016 05:14 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Wow. Read it for yourself and not parrot the atheist websites--as if! So many here are getting there arguments from people on here--blind leading the blind.

Why don't you ask the Bible author for His advice? Smile

Q. I read it. It is the greatest tool for forming atheism. I am also a qualified priest. Something I did as a laugh back in the day in order to understand how to fight the great evil known as xianity. I passed with flying colours.

You seem to me to be a person with very little knowledge of actual scripture and come across as an absolute joke. You have no credibility with me, nor any other thinking member of this website.

Your hopeless and infantile debate with Mark Fulton has proven you absolutely ignorant of scripture. My advice to you is to leave this website where you appropriately come across as foolish, and never return.

You are a joke. An idiot and ignorant of your chosen belief system.

[Image: standing-ovation.gif]

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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17-02-2016, 10:23 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(16-02-2016 08:59 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 08:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I have a Catholic Bible at home. It certainly does separate the apocrypha and also adds commentary as to the dubious/debated origin of the apocrypha.

Which Catholic Bible would that be? I have two versions of the original Douay-Rheims, two versions of the Challoner revision of same, The Knox translation, the Confraternity of Christian doctrine version from the 1950s, The RSV and NRSV Catholic Editions, several editions of the New American Bible, and several editions of both the original Jerusalem Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible, and maybe a few others that I'm forgetting. I also have an Eastern Orthodox Bible. Kindly point me to one of these that separates the Apocrypha as you claim, and I'll go home tonight and check. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing such separation in any of my Bibles.

1. I'll check at home and get back with you.

2. The RSV isn't a Catholic Bible. It is a Bible used in secular universities to teach biblical studies... etc. for other versions.

3. Shouldn't you give your Bibles away to people who love reading the Bible?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-02-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(16-02-2016 10:07 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 10:00 AM)mgoering Wrote:  Excuse my ignorance, Aliza, but I'm curious to know if Jews are still waiting for the real Messiah to come. And, if so, will there be irrefutable evidence that that Messiah has a direct blood lineage from David?

Yes, we're still waiting on the messiah.

There are people today who know if they're from the House of David. The late Lubavitcher Rebbe was known to be from this house. For those who do not know, their DNA can be compared against those who do know. This is also how we identify Kohains. Those who have the tradition in their families of being Davidic, Levite, or Kohain also have a genetic link that displays a connection in the y-chromosome.

So you do or do not have a source text for the claim? And couldn't G_d be able to incarnate the Messiah through a virgin with the correct genetics as well? He did make the world in six days and saved the ark and the Jewish people in the Exodus... do you believe the OT God does actual miracles?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-02-2016, 10:27 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-02-2016 05:14 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Wow. Read it for yourself and not parrot the atheist websites--as if! So many here are getting there arguments from people on here--blind leading the blind.

Why don't you ask the Bible author for His advice? Smile

Q. I read it. It is the greatest tool for forming atheism. I am also a qualified priest. Something I did as a laugh back in the day in order to understand how to fight the great evil known as xianity. I passed with flying colours.

You seem to me to be a person with very little knowledge of actual scripture and come across as an absolute joke. You have no credibility with me, nor any other thinking member of this website.

Your hopeless and infantile debate with Mark Fulton has proven you absolutely ignorant of scripture. My advice to you is to leave this website where you appropriately come across as foolish, and never return.

You are a joke. An idiot and ignorant of your chosen belief system.

A qualified priest to refute Christianity? Priest of what sect...?

My debate with Mark has indeed proven a point--that he has no contemporaneous sources for any of his claims, only pages of commentary written several hundred to nearly two thousand years after Paul.

If you would like to meet me in the Boxing Ring, perhaps we can decide on a Bible topic together where you can demonstrate my ignorance to your satisfaction.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-02-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-02-2016 10:27 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-02-2016 05:14 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Q. I read it. It is the greatest tool for forming atheism. I am also a qualified priest. Something I did as a laugh back in the day in order to understand how to fight the great evil known as xianity. I passed with flying colours.

You seem to me to be a person with very little knowledge of actual scripture and come across as an absolute joke. You have no credibility with me, nor any other thinking member of this website.

Your hopeless and infantile debate with Mark Fulton has proven you absolutely ignorant of scripture. My advice to you is to leave this website where you appropriately come across as foolish, and never return.

You are a joke. An idiot and ignorant of your chosen belief system.

A qualified priest to refute Christianity? Priest of what sect...?

My debate with Mark has indeed proven a point--that he has no contemporaneous sources for any of his claims, only pages of commentary written several hundred to nearly two thousand years after Paul.

If you would like to meet me in the Boxing Ring, perhaps we can decide on a Bible topic together where you can demonstrate my ignorance to your satisfaction.


You're are pathetic, Give t up. I am a baptist minister and a pagan priest. You've no idea.

Go read the bible Q. You are as ignorant fool as I've ever met.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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17-02-2016, 11:00 AM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2016 11:10 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-02-2016 10:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 08:59 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Which Catholic Bible would that be? I have two versions of the original Douay-Rheims, two versions of the Challoner revision of same, The Knox translation, the Confraternity of Christian doctrine version from the 1950s, The RSV and NRSV Catholic Editions, several editions of the New American Bible, and several editions of both the original Jerusalem Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible, and maybe a few others that I'm forgetting. I also have an Eastern Orthodox Bible. Kindly point me to one of these that separates the Apocrypha as you claim, and I'll go home tonight and check. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing such separation in any of my Bibles.

1. I'll check at home and get back with you.

2. The RSV isn't a Catholic Bible. It is a Bible used in secular universities to teach biblical studies... etc. for other versions.

3. Shouldn't you give your Bibles away to people who love reading the Bible?

You are right -- the RSV isn't a Catholic Bible (it is basically a revision of the KJV). But the RSV-CE is (hint: CE stands for Catholic Edition). The main difference between the two is that the CE version includes the so-called Apocrypha as part of the Old Testament, just like all other Catholic Bibles. This is one of the defining features of a Catholic Bible. Only Protestant Bibles segregate them.

I am a person who loves reading the Bible (and I probably have as many Protestant Bibles as Catholic Bibles -- my favorite of all my Bibles is the KJV, because of its literary qualities). It contains a lot of great literature, and cultural understanding requires some familiarity with it. I just don't consider it to be the Word of God™.
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17-02-2016, 11:18 AM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2016 11:33 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
NOTE: I also have a Jewish Bible (the JPS Tanakh translation) and a "Jewish Annotated New Testament" -- because all Christian Bibles subtly distort the translation of the Old Testament to make it appear more "Christological" than it really is. When it comes to translations of Jewish scriptures, I'm going to trust the Jews more than the Christians.
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