how to use the bible agaisnt itself
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19-01-2016, 03:38 PM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(19-01-2016 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 07:21 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  I've been trying to find a link or something that points out verses that can be used in debate. I'd like to find things that I can use that the bible says this. Thank so much

Wow. Read it for yourself and not parrot the atheist websites--as if! So many here are getting there arguments from people on here--blind leading the blind.

Why don't you ask the Bible author for His advice? Smile

Because they are largely unknown, dead since centuries, from a different culture and time, cannot answer (since they are dead), sometimes are of different opinion on all sort of subject. Consider

If you want quotes of the Bible for a debate, you can read it most of it is either a draconian code of law, a mix of mythologie and pseudohistory and a few moralistic fables. If you want a counter apologetic website, you should go to the Iron Chariot website. It`s pretty well done.

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19-01-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(19-01-2016 12:58 AM)xieulong Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:57 PM)mgoering Wrote:  I like this website:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I would also recommend that website. It also includes the book of Mormons and the Quran.

Also Bubby Christ's http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-available
Thank you. I've read this before. Worth another read. Smile
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19-01-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(19-01-2016 03:38 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Wow. Read it for yourself and not parrot the atheist websites--as if! So many here are getting there arguments from people on here--blind leading the blind.

Why don't you ask the Bible author for His advice? Smile

Because they are largely unknown, dead since centuries, from a different culture and time, cannot answer (since they are dead), sometimes are of different opinion on all sort of subject. Consider

If you want quotes of the Bible for a debate, you can read it most of it is either a draconian code of law, a mix of mythologie and pseudohistory and a few moralistic fables. If you want a counter apologetic website, you should go to the Iron Chariot website. It`s pretty well done.

Thank you I'll check this out
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19-01-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(19-01-2016 06:42 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I put this in another thread, I'll repost it here:

Found an excellent article by Richard Carrier on the subject:

The Date of The Nativity in Luke

There is absolutely no way these two accounts can be reconciled. One of the things Carrier point out is that in

Luke 2:41- Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

Contrasted with :

Matthew 2:22 -2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:

Matthew has Joseph avoiding Jerusalem and Judea until after the entire ten year reign of Archelaus.

Luke has them going into Jerusalem every year for the passover!

If you read through that article and learn it, you'll become a specialist on the inconsistencies between Matthew and Luke, enough of a specialist that there are no apologist retorts to what you bring up.

The inconsistency between Luke 2:41 and Matthew 2:22 is one such example, I haven't seen any apologist site even address it.

Your friends will not be able to formulate a response, even if they were serious scholars, there are some eggs you can't unscramble.

Thank you very much
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20-01-2016, 05:09 AM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 08:47 AM by Aliza.)
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-01-2016 08:33 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Yes I have read it before. I was just looking for these in a link so that I can show proof. The reason is I know how my family works. They don't think anything I say is good enough to open the bible and look to see if I'm telling the truth. They will however look it up when someone else points it out. Wink

Eta: thats not quite what I was looking for anyway. I'm looking for something that points out verses that contradict each other but not the obvious ones like the difference in jesuss story. But more like the one found in gensis 6:1-4 that contradict Jesus as being gods only child. As it says in most of the nt.

I can help you with some of this. The focus of my studies is disproving the so-called messiahship of Jesus by showing disqualifying text from the Hebrew bible (old testament). Once that guy is out of the way, the credibility of the NT's statements about worshipping him under threat of eternal damnation start to lose some of their punch.

Edit: I'm trying to find a list of failed prophecies and contradictions between Jesus and the predicted view of the messiah as found in the "OT". There's a lot of information out there, I'm just having difficulty finding anything that's packaged up nice and neat for you for you to browse through.
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20-01-2016, 07:52 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-01-2016 08:33 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Yes I have read it before. I was just looking for these in a link so that I can show proof. The reason is I know how my family works. They don't think anything I say is good enough to open the bible and look to see if I'm telling the truth. They will however look it up when someone else points it out. Wink

Eta: thats not quite what I was looking for anyway. I'm looking for something that points out verses that contradict each other but not the obvious ones like the difference in jesuss story. But more like the one found in gensis 6:1-4 that contradict Jesus as being gods only child. As it says in most of the nt.

You're never going to find some set of verses that will destroy someone else's faith. For every contradiction, impossibility, or absurdity, there is at least one stock apologetic answer. The best you might be able to do is learn what these answers are, learn which answers are contradictory, and point that out to someone when they start giving you answers. You see this a lot when people babble about God's plan, but simultaneously hold the view that free will is so important that it justifies all evil and suffering. Stuff like that.

Even still, don't expect something like this to "prove the Christian wrong". Many will weasel out with ad hoc hand waves. Those who don't will proudly state that they still have faith, and either run to someone who knows more for reassurance or stop thinking about it all together.

Your other option is to simply question the Bible as any type of authority, at all. Even if we grant that all the "historical" parts are true (they aren't) and that God exists (ha!), that doesn't mean that there is any truth behind the theological stances people take from the Bible. People assume God is "good", loving, and would never lie... but why do they believe that? Because the book said so? I can write in a book that I can't lie. Is the only logical conclusion that I must be telling the truth? No. At the end of the day, their belief system is one where they have faith that an invisible man who exists outside of space and time exists, they have faith that he can be trusted, even though he (admittedly!) does some really creepy stuff, and have faith that this will all work out, because he said so, despite all evidence to the contrary.

TL;DR: Good luck! Big Grin
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20-01-2016, 08:23 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(17-01-2016 07:21 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  I've been trying to find a link or something that points out verses that can be used in debate. I'd like to find things that I can use that the bible says this. Thank so much

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

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20-01-2016, 08:24 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
Not sure why the site is down at the moment, but http://www.evilbible.com is quickly navigated. Let's say you want to discuss the endorsement of rape in the bible, there are lists of the verses.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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20-01-2016, 08:43 AM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
Oooo - just saw this one whe I was trying to figure out what was up with the evil bible site - http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=21

It has a Top 20 Evil Bible Stories with the links to verses. Appalling stuff in there. Like the gang rape and dismemberment of a concubine - Judges 19:22-29.

An angry mob wanted to rape this dude's male guest, but seeing as how men are important and all, he instead offered his daughter and his guest's concubine (sex slave). So the men took the concubine and raped her and beat her. The guest, her master, finds her collapsed on dude's doorstep the next morning, and instead of oh I dunno, tending to the poor woman who was now unresponsive, he put her on a donkey and took her home. When they got home he chopped her up into 12 pieces and sent the body parts throughout Israel.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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25-01-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: how to use the bible agaisnt itself
(20-01-2016 05:09 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 08:33 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Yes I have read it before. I was just looking for these in a link so that I can show proof. The reason is I know how my family works. They don't think anything I say is good enough to open the bible and look to see if I'm telling the truth. They will however look it up when someone else points it out. Wink

Eta: thats not quite what I was looking for anyway. I'm looking for something that points out verses that contradict each other but not the obvious ones like the difference in jesuss story. But more like the one found in gensis 6:1-4 that contradict Jesus as being gods only child. As it says in most of the nt.

I can help you with some of this. The focus of my studies is disproving the so-called messiahship of Jesus by showing disqualifying text from the Hebrew bible (old testament). Once that guy is out of the way, the credibility of the NT's statements about worshipping him under threat of eternal damnation start to lose some of their punch.

Edit: I'm trying to find a list of failed prophecies and contradictions between Jesus and the predicted view of the messiah as found in the "OT". There's a lot of information out there, I'm just having difficulty finding anything that's packaged up nice and neat for you for you to browse through.

I see. And the Jewish Messiah is/will be whom?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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