identifying hate
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29-09-2014, 01:10 AM
RE: identifying hate
(28-09-2014 07:17 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(28-09-2014 06:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Really cause it seems that Comcast is one of the most hated businesses in the world yet they make tons of money. Same with Exxon Mobile. You have no comprehension of the real world.
First thing you need to look for, do they have government ties? Do they sponsor politicians?
Surely they do. In case you didn't notice, the US has a close relationship to global media and oil Drinking Beverage All you know about business today is crony capitalism, or crapitalism. It's really fascism, private profits, public loses.
The only somewhat free sphere of economy today is IT. Why? Because IT is hard to regulate without breaking it and a state needs to stay technologically ahead of other states.

And once again, you've failed to actually show how people in a zero-accountability system will all magically stop being assholes. LOL MAGIC still seems to be your train of thought, so there is that...

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29-09-2014, 02:31 AM
RE: identifying hate
(28-09-2014 07:17 PM)Luminon Wrote:  First thing you need to look for, do they have government ties? Do they sponsor politicians?

Do you?

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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29-09-2014, 03:25 AM
RE: identifying hate
(29-09-2014 01:10 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  And once again, you've failed to actually show how people in a zero-accountability system will all magically stop being assholes. LOL MAGIC still seems to be your train of thought, so there is that...
No, you have failed to understand. In market anarchy, a president can't kill millions in half a dozen middle east countries, because there is no president and no money-printing federal bank to pay for it.
And by the way, I don't see soldiers being charged with murder. No, they put on costumes and suddenly murder is not murder. Yay, magic!
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29-09-2014, 04:18 AM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2014 04:16 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: identifying hate
(29-09-2014 03:25 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(29-09-2014 01:10 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  And once again, you've failed to actually show how people in a zero-accountability system will all magically stop being assholes. LOL MAGIC still seems to be your train of thought, so there is that...
No, you have failed to understand. In market anarchy, a president can't kill millions in half a dozen middle east countries, because there is no president and no money-printing federal bank to pay for it.
And by the way, I don't see soldiers being charged with murder. No, they put on costumes and suddenly murder is not murder. Yay, magic!

No. Anyone with sufficient funds can hire whoever they want to kill whoever else they want, and they only need to worry about their reputation. No courts, no police, no regulations, no accountability. Whoever has the most money can do whatever they want. It is a system that values those who have power, and would lead to those who have it to further cement it against lose.

I've already explained to you how your imagined system can readily evolve into a hereditary absolute monarchy by just following your principles on property rights. Nothing in your 'principles' precludes one person from eventually gaining enough property, say a whole island, and where their 'rule' is just them expressing their 'property rights' on the people who work and live on their property. We've had absolute hereditary monarchies once before, they didn't work out; it's why modern representative governments were developed.

Obstinately we have representative government as a way to distribute power among the people, in an effort to stop any one person or group from accruing too much. Yes the government has the most power, but it is also the apparatus we all have some amount of control over. Every citizen is a stock holder in the corporation that is the government, but not everyone owns stock in Microsoft; thus why Microsoft's private security are not the same as police officers with the power of arrest, nor do they have their own militia or armed forces. Unfortunately, just like every corporation, some stock holders have more shares than others. We see this in the United States with unfettered spending in elections, so that the rich and powerful have a greater say in politics; they have a larger share and their voices have greater power in politics. Unfortunately money is speech, when it can be used to influence politics; and those with more money simply have more speech given the current climate.

Part of this however also lies at the feet of the under educated and apathetic population, which in itself leads to a vicious cycle that is hard to break from when those in power (the wealthy) have a vested interest in keeping the general populace ignorant (by undermining, underfunding, bastardizing, and otherwise destroying public education; and by controlling the media). The very same population, the very same people, the very same dynamics that are so detrimental to the smooth operation of a representative democracy would still be in place with your anarchy. The government may change, but the people will not; we all won't stop being assholes when there is no government around. Lack of accountability doesn't bring out the best in people, in fact it's probably one of the impetuses for creating organized religion. The idea that you might get away with something now, but there was somebody else who was always watching and would judge you in the next life, probably did a lot for social cohesion and order in our past.

What many of us have tried to point out to you repeatedly is that given our nature, given what we can see and study about us right now; your plans rely on a naive understanding of humanity. One so shockingly naive, it's almost alien. Anarchy is just that, anarchy. You hope that social order will magically arise once we're all supposedly just accountable to one another, but you're too ignorant to see not only all of the reasons it won't work, but all of the examples of history were it has had the chance to take hold but the exact opposite has happened. Any and every example you've ever tried to cite in your favor has always had massive flaws in it, so massive that the rest of us are honestly astounded and flabbergasted you'd ever try to present them in your favor (like ignoring the fact that Hong Kong is a port city and doesn't exist inside a bubble, but rather benefits greatly from it's non-anarchistic surrounding environment; advantages that are largely due to geography and other factors that would vanish if everyone else around Hong Kong acted like Hong Kong).

Luminon, the bottom line is that we do understand. Unfortunately for you, we understand it better than you do; because we do not lie to ourselves about the nature of reality. We don't rely on magical thinking, and we are aware of just how terrible people are and can be. Your systems has no means of dealing with outliers, short of dealing with the issue yourself; and if that issue is someone else who has more power than you (firearms, money, strength, etc.) then you are shit out of luck with no recourse open to you alone. Of course that will happen eventually, and when one person gets too much power and abuses it (this is the 'human nature' bit you conveniently ignore all the time), a few others will band together to oppose them. Then they'll have power, and another group will form to oppose them. Not a day into anarchy, and people will be forming makeshift families, gangs, and other social orders; things that for all intents and purposes are 'governments' but on a smaller scale. You have yet to ever provide a single piece of compelling evidence to show how an entire population, devoid of government, would maintain as a individualist anarchy instead of immediately congealing into new factions. How would you get an entire population to agree with you 100%, and live their lives as you see fit and as is required for your anarchy to run smoothly? Can you compel everyone in your anarchy to teach their children to have your values, or force them to value and uphold your principles? Of fucking course not, but the only way you can maintain your system is if you could; it is built upon an unstated premise that is patently impossible or would otherwise require an unjustifiable breech of everyone's cognitive liberty. So basically, you couldn't make it work without violating your own principles, so there is that.

Much like how religion is just a really large cult, a government is just a really large family or gang. We have zero reason to believe, given what we know about human nature, to take anything you say seriously. We know our current governments need work and improvement, but none of us are ready to burn it all down and start reenacting The Road Warrior anytime soon. The ideas you propose look to be far worse than what we have already, and the sad part is you already know this. This is why you're such a chickenshit hypocritical coward that continues to be part of the system you claim to hate and oppose, rather than truly going out on your own. You can't be bothered enough to live by your own 'first principles', so why the fuck should the rest of us follow your lead?

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