if they read the gospel...
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01-12-2014, 08:36 PM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't believe morality comes from some book written thousands of years ago, if it did than we'd all be in trouble, but rather that it lives within the human heart, that we are meant for it, obligated to it, groans in the direction of the only true and meaningful sense of life. And those who refuse to see morality along these line, who see it as mere decorative frills of personal opinion, lack a moral backbone.

I'm pretty sure morality isn't cardiovascular muscle...

Just sayin'.

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01-12-2014, 09:09 PM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 07:30 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Go ahead, and use this motto as the basis of your new Gospel. Preach it in the halls of every prison system, and every crime ridden ghetto. Call the bloods and crypts, the delinquents, and hoodlums to your alters of moral reform. Hold godless services on Sundays, or Saturdays or Wednesdays, inviting communities to hold hands and sing of their allegiance to caring for the species, for all living things now until tomorrow. Have them plant trees in the dirt by the pavement.

But if you're unwilling to bleed, sweet and die for your Gospel, then you have no business attempting to peddle it.

Might as well. Because your religion has utterly failed to better the world in any sense in the 2,000 years it's been peddled. Delusion and ignorance have long been the bane of humanity. You keep insisting the opposite is true, even when the entire known history of man shows otherwise.

The stories in your holy book lost to reason, evidence and sanity a long time ago. It's just taking a while for the sheep to wake up and realize that the reason they keep losing members of the flock to wolves and natural disasters and over the sides of cliffs is that there never was a shepherd there to protect them in the first place....no matter how much they believed or wanted one. The sooner people wake up to that fact and start living in reality the better off everyone will be.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-12-2014, 10:15 PM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 10:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, not useless - where did I say that?
I was countering your attitude that only religion can provide values by pointing out that I got ethical values in a secular environment.

I'm not arguing that only religion can provide values. I'm just arguing that problem is not one that education can solve, but rather fostering moral values can solve. And that the alternatives for religious communities fostering moral values, is not education. Or in other words the secular alternative to the Gospel, would be something along the lines of the humanist manifesto, fostering humanistic communities, as an alternative to religious ones.

In fact I'd argue that educational institutions attempting to instill moral values in children, are likely to be walking a fine line between separation of church and state.


Reality check.....

Considering you say you had some sort of education, it should be rather obvious to you then that based on the history of religions they are amongst the most immoral institutions which have ever existed. As a matter of FACT, religion and morals cannot be used in the same sentence. Moral values rise from actually THINKING which is a byproduct of education and not from religious indoctrination/brainwashing which impedes thinking. Take a look at yourself for example, you've been indoctrinated/brainwashed into thinking religion provides morals AND values when it is the most evil self serving man made creation ever. Your religion has blinded you from your historical education and reality.
It is quite repulsive to us secular thinking people when you brainwashed egotistical robots actually use religion and morals in the same sentence.
Morals are the domain of those who actually THINK for themselves. You and your self righteous religious nutcases make us thinking people so angry when you claim any ownership to morals and values. So leave your fantasy land world and move up to the reality that all your holy books, beliefs and stupid uneducated superstitions are the main moral evils that exist in this world, now and in the past.
Furthermore, I question the type of education you claim to have. You should know proper grammar is "my wife and I" not "me and my wife" or were you too busy reading your evil bible during class. If you cannot speak with honesty you should leave the room. Religion and morals are polar opposites. Get real, get out of the way and stop being the problem. You are holding civilization back.
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02-12-2014, 01:21 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't believe morality comes from some book written thousands of years ago, if it did than we'd all be in trouble, but rather that it lives within the human heart, that we are meant for it, obligated to it, groans in the direction of the only true and meaningful sense of life. And those who refuse to see morality along these line, who see it as mere decorative frills of personal opinion, lack a moral backbone.

You sir are delusion. We are animals. If you look at how we have acted in the past, it makes perfect sense. We evolve over time socially to better suite our need as a species to survive. What was acceptable 5000 or even 200 years ago isn't accepted now. If you're theory was correct, then that would not be the case. You think in the wild west when they shot someone for cheating at poker they thought twice about it? No. Because it was acceptable. 20000 years ago when men raped women or killed other men that threatened their sex life they didn't think twice. If morals were built into their heart ( or more accurately their brain) we wouldn't have seen these things. That's why you need education to show people what is wrong and right and acceptable in today's society. Not just to teach them math.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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02-12-2014, 02:53 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't believe morality comes from some book written thousands of years ago, if it did than we'd all be in trouble, but rather that it lives within the human heart, that we are meant for it, obligated to it, groans in the direction of the only true and meaningful sense of life. And those who refuse to see morality along these line, who see it as mere decorative frills of personal opinion, lack a moral backbone.

Go on, tell us more about how we're all basically evil and can't hope to do anything without humbly begging forgiveness from your invisible friend. Dodgy

If morality comes from the human heart (quaint way of talking) then my heart says there's fuck all wrong with the way I live right now, so thank you for your concern but God and his minions can get stuffed.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-12-2014, 04:09 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't believe morality comes from some book written thousands of years ago, if it did than we'd all be in trouble...

Says the guy who believes in the god being proposed by a thousands year old book...



(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...but rather that it lives within the human heart,...

I take it you have never taken an anatomy course?

Note for the slow: Phrenology, alchemy, homeopathy, and astrology are also not science.



(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...that we are meant for it, obligated to it, groans in the direction of the only true and meaningful sense of life.

Ask ten different people what the meaning of life is, there's a very good chance you'll get ten different answers; so fuck that.



(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And those who refuse to see morality along these line, who see it as mere decorative frills of personal opinion, lack a moral backbone.

News Flash: Morality is Subjective. Drinking Beverage

Once you realize this, you can intelligently enter into the discussion and help mold societal moral standards as they change over time (see the sea change that is the gay rights movement over the last decade). Or you can be an unintelligent moral dinosaur who clings to a supposedly 'objective' morality that they've subjectively divined from their particular interpretation of their god.

But hey, at least you can pretend you have a 'moral backbone', right?

By the way, it doesn't happen to sit next to your emotion generating heart, does it?

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02-12-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(02-12-2014 04:09 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Once you realize this, you can intelligently enter into the discussion and help mold societal moral standards as they change over time (see the sea change that is the gay rights movement over the last decade). Or you can be an unintelligent moral dinosaur who clings to a supposedly 'objective' morality that they've subjectively divined from their particular interpretation of their god.

But hey, at least you can pretend you have a 'moral backbone', right?

You have to be a moral dinosaur, or else you end up being a squishy little mouse. Your views amount to a moral protest that merely claims that whats evil, and wrong just offends your particular sensibility, like someone's choice of wardrobe, or a distastefully cooked steak.

It's not that you merely lack a moral backbone, but that you believe that morality has no backbone, that the end of the day it's all squeak and no bite.
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02-12-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(02-12-2014 07:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You have to be a moral dinosaur, or else you end up being a squishy little mouse. Your views amount to a moral protest that merely claims that whats evil, and wrong just offends your particular sensibility, like someone's choice of wardrobe, or a distastefully cooked steak.

It's not that you merely lack a moral backbone, but that you believe that morality has no backbone, that the end of the day it's all squeak and no bite.

You're a retard Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-12-2014, 07:37 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(02-12-2014 07:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 04:09 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Once you realize this, you can intelligently enter into the discussion and help mold societal moral standards as they change over time (see the sea change that is the gay rights movement over the last decade). Or you can be an unintelligent moral dinosaur who clings to a supposedly 'objective' morality that they've subjectively divined from their particular interpretation of their god.

But hey, at least you can pretend you have a 'moral backbone', right?

You have to be a moral dinosaur, or else you end up being a squishy little mouse. Your views amount to a moral protest that merely claims that whats evil, and wrong just offends your particular sensibility, like someone's choice of wardrobe, or a distastefully cooked steak.

It's not that you merely lack a moral backbone, but that you believe that morality has no backbone, that the end of the day it's all squeak and no bite.

You think there are moral bones too?

Also; no word on how morality is in the heart, then? Typical. Nobody ever answers those questions. Dodgy

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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02-12-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: if they read the gospel...
(01-12-2014 07:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 07:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's still bullshit. "Sin" is non-existent - it is the invented ill for which the gospel is the invented cure.

This is perhaps a part of the issue, the belief that there is no such thing as "sin", that there is nothing wrong in man's inherent being, that causes him to fall into the grasp of violence and bigotry, and the all the problems arise from external institutions.

While there may be some "us or them".
It is not as bad as the media would have us believe.
Mainstream media is definitely a fan on the racial fire.
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