imprisoned minds
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20-06-2013, 01:45 PM
imprisoned minds
congratulations everyone for escaping theism. But are you really free in the mind? Nobody is more enslaved than those who wrongfully believe they are free. I didn't make a fuss about scaping theology because its not my big issue. Most important is to be a thinker. To me I see many systems of control- control of the mind, of behavior, that keep us being our true selves and living a healthy outward expression of our natural instincts. Some of these controls are deliberate, if archaic (but more than likely they are allowed to continue because they serve the modern status quo. Let us call the sum totality of them all the "Matrix" or matrices.

The first way they work is by pure and simple indoctrination. Violence and make believe are two big parts of this. Peer pressure and social proof and positive and negative reinforcement play a big role in indoctrination- of installing and instilling certain "Ways of seeing" into a person's being. But I want to focus here more on the second way they control us, because it's more sophisticated and clever, and many here are very aware of how they indoctrinate us. Now we come to the mind of Karl Marx, and Hegel, and their extremely high intelligences. I am talking of course about the dialectics.

Dialectics: There are different possible ways in which two opposing ideas can function in the cause of control, or of falsehood. For example, both ideas could be wrong entirely and the third "real" option is way in left field. Hell, what about trialectics? The fourth way might be the way. For example, communism versus capitalism-- what about "back to the land"? Also, if you do manage to escape even the dialectica prison of something, onto a higher view, that higher view might be part of a greater dialectic. It's so tricky and clever, the best thing to do right now is stop and ask what is truth? For our purposes here, truth is the natural world, our natural instincts, and our genetic legacy, our DNA- nature, essentially.

Another way the dialectic operates is that the truth could be in the middle of two extremes always presented as either-or. This is where the value of the "middle way" comes in, or the "straight and narrow". For example on the religious side, we have a lot of control over one's sexuality- many things are bad. On the anti-religious side, we have a lot of support and encouragement for everything, even homosexuality, masturbation and porn. I am not condemning these from a moral ground. It is a person's knee jerk reaction, I have found, here and IRL to claim that my views here are a holdover from my religious days. If you are a homosexual who masturbates to porn, I shall not shame you or guilt you, but I simply do not think the first is natural, the second is healthy or constructive or a good positive use of energy, and the third is not healthy and is hateful and hurtful to women and based on illusion. If you don't believe me, read "Truth behind the fantasy of porn". Also it is an erotitoxin, an excito toxin to the male brain.

You see what I mean by dialectics?

Here are some examples.
Repression, no feelings, shame-------------------total expression, no shame
Total Passive cowardice----------------------------aggressive, rapist.
In these cases, it is polarization. The truth is in the middle.

In other cases it might be in the middle, it might be elsewhere, or there might be a trialectic
Capitalism----------------Communism
In fact all ideologies are stupid, I think, and for the garbage, but in fact they are useful for mobilizing populations and it may be necessary for statesmanship
Republican----------------Democrat
It was the independents who first broke out of the dialectic in recent times.

I think of it as a set of pincers to grab people.

Maybe I'm not using the word correctly or as hegel intended at least. He was describing progress. There's that too- thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I agree this is a way progress can be made, naturally or deliberately, and by progress I don't mean any kind of moral progress, that necessarily satisfies everyone. A clearer word would be progression toward some new state, or advancement (e.g. of an agenda).

So we must break out of the dynamics they are creating for us. How? By thinking our way out, by thinking big. Always think big. If you are not thinking bigger than you've ever thought, you are not really thinking. Think big and also think small. Put the dialectic to work for us. Think big and small and think slow, always think as slowly as you can at a given moment. It will be the thing that most likely sets you free. The slower you think, the faster you will progress, trust me.

So the way to escape is to first escape indoctrination, and then escape the higher form of indoctrination, which is the dialectic, which still holds people after they believe they've been "set free"- see the quote above. No one is more a slave then them, according to the quote. This is how the mind can be imprisoned.

Now the libido is another story- shame guilt and fear and internalization of hopelessness and demoralization, kept down by masturbation and pornography viewing as consolation.

Now how a physical person can be imprisoned is through a court of law, through force, and they can also be ostracized or made pariah for unpopular nonconformist views. Is there anything better, or more eccentric than being a non-conformist? Eventually one learns to censor oneself, until one decides one wants to throw a grenade into a discussion,


Here is an example of the emotional-mental imprisonment from a dialectic point of view-

A Despair Bear attacks you and you are all miserable and forlorn, for minutes or days, and then who comes hence, but Insane Hope himself. Even when you see this transpiring in your own mind you are powerless to stop the insanity. Your mind will to hope, it just loves the merry go round I guess, disregarding one's conscious will and better judgment.


Sometimes two things are shown to be at odds- Realism versus Romanticism for example. In this case it is good to escape the fantasy delusion of romanticism and go straight for realism. This is not a dialectic. In fact this case is special because it also involves bad naming. Reality itself is inherently romantic, the two are one and the same, as long as in romanticism you accept the reality, the ups and downs and the glamourlessness.

Sometimes on one end you have a full truth, and on the other end you have a half truth. The advocates of the half truth might have loud voices, might be well funded, and a person reasons, well just accept the half truth and blend the true, mix and comprise, because they both have value. People think two half-truths make a whole truth.. or three half truths for good measure. Or two 2/3 truths. They do not, and never will. Only whole truths make a truth for the sake of an argument or conviction.

We need to do positive behaviors of course to get results in life, to make ourselves fulfilled, but often when we are stuck, or wondering what to do, sometimes the best thing we can do is determine what to cut out of our routine or habit, and avoid that completely. If you want more energy and ability to pay attention for example, and have a quicker reaction time in some game, stop drinking alcohol or limit yourself to one or at most 2. If you want a higher sex drive or more fighting ability, more courage and aggression, then stop masturbating to porn. It is nature's law that as one sows, one reaps. This should be an atheist principle, reaping and sowing. Well it is not quite true- Someone else can reap what you have sown, like the USSR, or you can reap someone else's field, or maybe nature herself was the sower, or maybe you are a hunter, but basically, but cause precedes effect after it's type, seed precedes fruit, just as thought precedes action, idea precedes execution of that idea.

Be free in the mind. True nature, true purpose
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20-06-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: imprisoned minds
oh for fuck's sake.

TLDR.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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20-06-2013, 02:32 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2013 02:48 PM by Logisch.)
RE: imprisoned minds
(20-06-2013 02:10 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  oh for fuck's sake.

TLDR.

In all fairness, many of our discussions are long. This isn't reddit Wink If you don't wish to engage in a long conversation, no one is going to ask you to.
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20-06-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: imprisoned minds
Why are you always trying to get people to stop masturbating? Where are your sources that this is helpful in any way?

Quote:A Despair Bear attacks you and
Is that one of the Care Bears?
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20-06-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: imprisoned minds
I suggest that you are not "free in mind". You seem trapped in some very odd ideas about what is and isn't natural.

I suggest you read some books on human development and sexuality, and some books on animal behavior.
Then you might free your mind from your misconceptions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-06-2013, 12:46 AM
RE: imprisoned minds
AmyB, that was maybe what, one or two sentences in my whole post, but your mind went straight to it. That says more about you than it does me.

Chas, the difference between me and others is I acknowledge my prison and I am trying to escape. I simply think I'm frustrated, sexually frustrated, which according to wikipedia produces heightened agitation, depression, stress, loneliness and anxiety, all of which I'm feeling, esp stress. I think I just need skin on skin then I will have more peace with the world. Fakes don't count, fakes like prostitutes don't do it for me. My behavior, I would argue, is a natural response to current conditions. To those who say this mood won't help me attract a woman, fine I understand that, but what can I do about it but trust the process to it's conclusion?
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21-06-2013, 08:05 AM
RE: imprisoned minds
Code:
If you want more energy and ability to pay attention for example, and have a quicker reaction time in some game, stop drinking alcohol or limit yourself to one or at most 2. If you want a higher sex drive or more fighting ability, more courage and aggression, then stop masturbating to porn.

How dare you, sir.Angry

I gave up religion, now you want me to let go of alcohol and masturbation? We must now fight to the death.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-06-2013, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2013 09:41 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: imprisoned minds
I agree on the political front at least. Some traditionally republic policies make more sense and some traditional democrat policies make more sense...but of course we need to lump the whole of public policy into two inadequate buckets, flood the system with dirty money to create the illusion of democracy.

The idea that you can regulate everything is ****ing stupid...The idea that despite de-regulation environmental ruin and public health crisises will be magically avoided is even more ****ing stupid.

Pure communism causes a demotivated and helpless mass of humanity but pure free market capitalism is a ladder to ruin...You need some sort of middle ground.

Now what makes it even more complex is that we have a sort of middle ground right now but it is arrived at through petty discourse and sabotage...It is a suspension as opposed to a homogeneous solution. "You can have your housing project but not the money to maintain it." "You can have abortions but first we are going to probulate you like alien sadists." "We won't touch the oil/gas industry but we will regulate the living crap out of the auto industry", "We can't stop PEL grants, but we can jack the interest rates"... So in effect although middle ground is achieved it is done so by shooting ones country in the foot.

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21-06-2013, 11:19 AM
RE: imprisoned minds
(21-06-2013 12:46 AM)viking Wrote:  AmyB, that was maybe what, one or two sentences in my whole post, but your mind went straight to it. That says more about you than it does me.

Chas, the difference between me and others is I acknowledge my prison and I am trying to escape. I simply think I'm frustrated, sexually frustrated, which according to wikipedia produces heightened agitation, depression, stress, loneliness and anxiety, all of which I'm feeling, esp stress. I think I just need skin on skin then I will have more peace with the world. Fakes don't count, fakes like prostitutes don't do it for me. My behavior, I would argue, is a natural response to current conditions. To those who say this mood won't help me attract a woman, fine I understand that, but what can I do about it but trust the process to it's conclusion?
Yes, my mind goes right to wanking. Maybe because you've been going on and on about it in other threads. Are you calling me a wanker? Fine. I don't see anything wrong with it. That's my whole point.

The problem is that you are drawing this conclusion as though it applies to ALL people.
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21-06-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: imprisoned minds
Hmm, Viking, looks to me like you have created your own prison...
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