insignificance
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12-12-2014, 10:59 AM
RE: insignificance
(12-12-2014 10:24 AM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  "We suffer from a hallucination, from a false and distorted sensation of our own existence as living organisms. Most of us have the sensation that “I myself” is a separate center of feeling and action, living inside and bounded by the physical body — a center which “confronts” an “external” world of people and things, making contact through the senses with a universe both alien and strange. Everyday figures of speech reflect this illusion. “I came into this world.” “You must face reality.” “The conquest of nature.”

This feeling of being lonely and very temporary visitors in the universe is in flat contradiction to everything known about man (and all other living organisms) in the sciences. We do not “come into” this world; we come out of it, as leaves from a tree. As the ocean “waves,” the universe “peoples.” Every individual is an expression of the whole realm of nature, a unique action of the total universe. This fact is rarely, if ever, experienced by most individuals. Even those who know it to be true in theory do not sense or feel it, but continue to be aware of themselves as isolated “egos” inside bags of skin."

- Alan Watts

I will probably read this 20 times and try to understand it- nothing to add or debate -but thank you

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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12-12-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: insignificance
Maybe a song would help.




... this is my signature!
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12-12-2014, 11:48 AM
RE: insignificance
(12-12-2014 09:31 AM)k37713 Wrote:  I recently tested my hormone levels and found out that I had a high level of testosterone. Which when I looked up symptoms basically laid out exactly who I am. More muscular than most women, high competitive drive, lower voice, athletic and less empathetic. ( just some of the big ones) This has left a new empty feeling in me - like when I started searching for the truth behind faith... Is nothing just mine?

I'm confused as to what the issue is. Your testosterone levels may be higher than average but that's just a part of who you are. They aren't symptoms because they aren't errors or problems. They are components in defining who you are. There's no "you" that is being modified by that fact, there's just "you". If your levels were different you would be different but that would still be you.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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12-12-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: insignificance
(12-12-2014 09:31 AM)k37713 Wrote:  I know there are answers beyond my comprehension but some of those things are my best accomplishments - my marathon, my diving in south Africa with sharks, learning to fly, and then learning how to jump out of the damn thing -- all of these things just seem to be a symptom now - instead of what I thought made me strong and different. I love science and the world but how do we look at all of that and still find -- value? ( Sorry if this is dark)

I find value precisely in our transience. The idea of an eternal existence undermines and diminishes my value.

#sigh
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12-12-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: insignificance
Feel free to ignore any of this, but here's what I think:

It's not necessarily a symptom. Sure, your testosterone level is higher than most. Sure, may be why you are drawn to certain things. But you decided to do those things, not your endocrine system.

I'm not saying you're overreacting, but is it possible that you're seeing these things because they're on a list? For instance, I've seen those lists of "Are you autistic" or "Are you wise" and so on. Every little thing you see is like, "Yeah! That's me!"

It's natural because suddenly things fall into place, good or bad.

Even if the list is exactly you, that's not to say you're predictable because of a list of similarities or symptoms or anything else. Your chemistry can make you predisposed to things, but you still decided to do those before you ever saw the list. That means you still did what you wanted to. Just means you decided.
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12-12-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: insignificance
(12-12-2014 10:55 AM)k37713 Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 10:12 AM)Dom Wrote:  You are what gives you value.

Yes, I agree that probably many things that we consider a product of our personality are actually the opposite - our personality is a product of these things.

Just how does that take away from value though? Quite the opposite, we are actually all doing splendidly living with what we've got to work with. All of us have to deal with disadvantages of some sort. And we all have some advantages too.

It's part of evolution - every possible combination of factors gets tried in order to evolve a better model. Some of us catch a really raw deal (birth defects etc) and some have an easier time of it. But yes, there is a purpose and value in this if you look at the big picture.

I just don't want to read another list that completely describes me- maybe now this is just online therapy - but I really want to have some pride in my accomplishments instead of it being on a checklist for being "competitive" or aggressive( hyper and goal oriented not fight wise ) - ive just been so different than most of society for so long and thought it was a good thing.. - I don't want to take meds or someone to tell me what my faults are - I want to stop looking for answers- but that isn't who I am.. I know there are answers and that there is a hormone imbalance or something that makes me act and feel the way that I do - but im not looking to be "normal" I just want to have the power of knowing I am in control

Well, I don't think you have a huge amount of control - except through learning. Some people walk through life without ever having any control.

You are the unique combination of unique physical attributes and unique life experience. Between those two your behavior and decisions are pretty much predetermined. But you are definitely unique.

Now, enter reason. You did some research and found out about your hormonal balance. This now puts you in control - you can choose to enjoy what you have or to alter it. That way you will create one factor that will continue to be part of what determines your future.

The more aware you are of your personal "hardware and software", the more power you have. Being aware of irrational behaviors allows you to control them. And, with today's medicine, you can change a bunch of your physical components too.

Not knowing is what makes one powerless. Knowledge imparts power.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-12-2014, 06:25 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 02:56 PM by Free.)
RE: insignificance
(12-12-2014 09:31 AM)k37713 Wrote:  It took many years to work through my lack of faith - because I wanted/needed support or confirmation of self worth. The hardest part of my realization, was that I was now just a cog in a wheel - the way I think now is that I have no relevance more than a bee pollinating flowers. I feel like we are just humans, on one planet, in one solar system. That our existence is insignificant in the big picture. I'm now more than ok with that, its actually relieving to an extent.
But.
I recently tested my hormone levels and found out that I had a high level of testosterone. Which when I looked up symptoms basically laid out exactly who I am. More muscular than most women, high competitive drive, lower voice, athletic and less empathetic. ( just some of the big ones) This has left a new empty feeling in me - like when I started searching for the truth behind faith... Is nothing just mine? I don't believe in astrology or any mystical bs - but is there science behind exactly who I am? I've somehow lost some self worth again - I know there are answers beyond my comprehension but some of those things are my best accomplishments - my marathon, my diving in south Africa with sharks, learning to fly, and then learning how to jump out of the damn thing -- all of these things just seem to be a symptom now - instead of what I thought made me strong and different. I love science and the world but how do we look at all of that and still find -- value? ( Sorry if this is dark)

You seem to be looking for some meaning to your existence. From what I am reading, it was after you accepted that we are insignificant in the massive universal scale of things that you began to feel like you have no value.

It's like, "What's the point?"

Well, I think the "point" will be whatever you make it to be. You see, it really doesn't matter how insignificant we are in the grand scale of things, because the grand scale of things really doesn't matter. Since the grand scale of the universe doesn't care about you, then don't concern yourself with the grand scale of the universe. You cannot change that; it is out of your hands.

What really matters is the value you likely already have in your life. Your family, friends, and yes your own life are really all that matters as far as true value is concerned. Your family and friends place value on you, and that value means a great deal to them. You also place value on them, and similarly that means a great deal to you.

You, your family, and friends are worth something, you see? And that worth is only measured by one characteristic; priceless. Everything you love, and everything that loves you, is absolutely priceless.

The big bad universe is completely indifferent to you, so don't gauge any kind of value from the grand scale of things because there is nothing there of any value to you at all.

The meaning of life is whatever meaning you assign to it, because there is no universal answer to the meaning of life. The only answer is always a personal individual answer, and that answer stares you in the face when you look in the mirror, or when you see a happy smile from a loved one.

And that is why you are not "insignificant."

That's my 2 cents.

Undecided

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