is it arrogance
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11-10-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: is it arrogance
(11-10-2013 10:01 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  That's it, poke the crazy guy with a stick
Only to make sure you're alive, Johnny darling! [Image: smileyvault-poke.gif]

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11-10-2013, 11:42 AM
RE: is it arrogance
Let's assume there is a "god". We'll define this deity as simply a creature of sufficient knowledge, power, and complexity to be able to create the universe.

I think it would be arrogant to assume anything about the mindset of such a creature. This god would be extremely advanced. Leaps and bounds above what humanity is capable of.

I liken it to something I heard in a few talks. I think it was NDT or Dawkins. The difference between us and chimps is a mere 2%. Think about how much more advanced we are than chimps at only 2%. Now imagine a race that is more advanced than us that was only 2% "better" than us. Wouldn't it be arrogant to assume to understand their motives and thinking.

Now put the same thinking to our assumed deity. That creature would be exponentially superior to us in every way. How would it not be arrogant to assume understanding of how such a creature thinks?

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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11-10-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: is it arrogance
(10-10-2013 09:48 PM)Skippy538 Wrote:  Based on the complete and total lack of evidence for a god, personally I would think he/she could only respect genuine disbelief.

I always thought of it this way - if I call someone 100 times and they never call me back, they either:

1) don't exist or
2) don't want to talk to me.

After years of prayer and earnest endeavor without a single real response, I chose 1). 2) didn't really make sense after the genuine and compelling effort I put in.

But either way, as far as I'm concerned the ball is in his/her court. Because of that, I don't worry about these things anymore.

What did you pray? What endeavors did you make? I'm not critiquing or judging you, I'm just curious about your experience.
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11-10-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: is it arrogance
(11-10-2013 11:42 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Let's assume there is a "god". We'll define this deity as simply a creature of sufficient knowledge, power, and complexity to be able to create the universe.

I think it would be arrogant to assume anything about the mindset of such a creature. This god would be extremely advanced. Leaps and bounds above what humanity is capable of.

I liken it to something I heard in a few talks. I think it was NDT or Dawkins. The difference between us and chimps is a mere 2%. Think about how much more advanced we are than chimps at only 2%. Now imagine a race that is more advanced than us that was only 2% "better" than us. Wouldn't it be arrogant to assume to understand their motives and thinking.

Now put the same thinking to our assumed deity. That creature would be exponentially superior to us in every way. How would it not be arrogant to assume understanding of how such a creature thinks?

1. It's not a 2% difference. That's a sound bite that is wrong.

2. "Only" a 2% difference is millions of gene mapping differences.
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15-10-2013, 10:56 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2013 01:46 PM by DeavonReye.)
RE: is it arrogance
(11-10-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 09:48 PM)Skippy538 Wrote:  Based on the complete and total lack of evidence for a god, personally I would think he/she could only respect genuine disbelief.

I always thought of it this way - if I call someone 100 times and they never call me back, they either:

1) don't exist or
2) don't want to talk to me.

After years of prayer and earnest endeavor without a single real response, I chose 1). 2) didn't really make sense after the genuine and compelling effort I put in.

But either way, as far as I'm concerned the ball is in his/her court. Because of that, I don't worry about these things anymore.

What did you pray? What endeavors did you make? I'm not critiquing or judging you, I'm just curious about your experience.

It was the same with me. ~30 years of sincere seeking for god, and it ultimately came back void. Note the keyword, "sincere". I couldn't have been anymore sincere . . . and if I faked a "deeper faith", it would have been a lie. I read the bible, prayed, sang song earnestly, etc, . . . but it was empty. Nothing there. . . . . Nothing else to do but be atheistic about it. No longer could I accept the "love letter analogy" that is the bible. I saw it as a human invention only.
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15-10-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: is it arrogance
God told me not to belief in him, so I won't.
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15-10-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: is it arrogance
(11-10-2013 02:44 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(11-10-2013 11:42 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Let's assume there is a "god". We'll define this deity as simply a creature of sufficient knowledge, power, and complexity to be able to create the universe.

I think it would be arrogant to assume anything about the mindset of such a creature. This god would be extremely advanced. Leaps and bounds above what humanity is capable of.

I liken it to something I heard in a few talks. I think it was NDT or Dawkins. The difference between us and chimps is a mere 2%. Think about how much more advanced we are than chimps at only 2%. Now imagine a race that is more advanced than us that was only 2% "better" than us. Wouldn't it be arrogant to assume to understand their motives and thinking.

Now put the same thinking to our assumed deity. That creature would be exponentially superior to us in every way. How would it not be arrogant to assume understanding of how such a creature thinks?

1. It's not a 2% difference. That's a sound bite that is wrong.

2. "Only" a 2% difference is millions of gene mapping differences.

Quit being pedantic. I'm not sure what you're arguing to begin with. The point is that anything that we humans would consider "godlike" would be so far advanced from us that knowing its intention or thought process would be like a chimp contemplating quantum physics.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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15-10-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: is it arrogance
^This. . . . . . and with that in mind, . . . how could a human even KNOW what they were even "worshiping", or if they even COULD "worship this entity", based upon having a poor understanding of it?
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16-10-2013, 08:27 AM
RE: is it arrogance
(11-10-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 09:48 PM)Skippy538 Wrote:  SNIIP

What did you pray? What endeavors did you make? I'm not critiquing or judging you, I'm just curious about your experience.

I prayed every morning for an hour trying to "connect" with god for three years seeking guidance and a relationship, trying to have personal relationship with god where I could feel his presence and see his hand in creation, in my life daily. The endeavors were related to reading the bible every day, seeking guidance every day, working in ministry, pastoral college classes, teaching, you know, having my entire life revolve around my god belief. Towards the end, I distinctly recall the emptiness of being in prayer and supplication, with no feeling of connection, no sense of outer involvement, no nothing. Just me, with my thoughts.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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