isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
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21-11-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 01:37 PM)microterf Wrote:  The simplest that I can make it is if you have a story that makes sense, if you have 90% of a story that is great, and congruent with everything else, you look at the other 10% and try to figure out the anomaly.

In Christianity, you do the opposite. You take a bunch of stories that do not line up with what we know about the physical earth at all. (Noah's flood, Creationism, Tower of Babel, Exodus etc.) on top of that, you have a book that has ALL of these errors and is obviously copied, break down each argument one by one while acting like all of the rest make perfect sense.

Ah, but my faith disallows me from building a syllogism on a shaky premise. While I find the Exodus and etc. reasonable, I wouldn't mind challenging you that the reason you disbelieve isn't evidence or illogic but lack of a desire to be holy. Not moral--holy.

And you would wrong, yet again. It is lack of evidence, nothing more, nothing less.
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21-11-2014, 02:18 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Ah, but my faith disallows me from building a syllogism on a shaky premise. While I find the Exodus and etc. reasonable, I wouldn't mind challenging you that the reason you disbelieve isn't evidence or illogic but lack of a desire to be holy. Not moral--holy.

The reason I don't believe (and almost all others I would guess) on faith only is that I would then have to apply that to every other religion and believe in them all. The way I look at it, you have two options if you want to be honest with yourself
1. Believe them all
2. Believe None.

until there is other evidence introduced that supports one, such as Christians start recovering from cancer at a much higher rate than any other religious group, etc.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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21-11-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 01:42 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Glad to hear you say that. Since I live TODAY, I hereby pronounce the synoptists guilty of perjury and banish them from my life forever.

You know, Allah's commandments are not burdensome either. There's just the five pillars of Islam to follow as opposed to Judaism's and Christianity's hundreds. But I don't choose to follow that either since nonsense is nonsense, burdensome or not.

Regards,
Doc

Sorry, just two here--all the Law hangs on neighborly-ness, all the rest of the scriptures on honoring God.

The first part of your statement, unfortunately, is "presentist":

pres·ent·ism
/ˈprezenˌtizəm/

noun: presentism

uncritical adherence to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts.

Whatevs.
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21-11-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 02:18 PM)microterf Wrote:  The way I look at it, you have two options if you want to be honest with yourself
1. Believe them all
2. Believe None.

I don't know that it's so much a matter of being honest with yourself.. Being consistent, yes. But not necessarily being honest. I think you can honestly have faith in just one. It doesn't mean the faith is reasonable, just honest.

I do take the greater point though.

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21-11-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 01:37 PM)microterf Wrote:  The simplest that I can make it is if you have a story that makes sense, if you have 90% of a story that is great, and congruent with everything else, you look at the other 10% and try to figure out the anomaly.

In Christianity, you do the opposite. You take a bunch of stories that do not line up with what we know about the physical earth at all. (Noah's flood, Creationism, Tower of Babel, Exodus etc.) on top of that, you have a book that has ALL of these errors and is obviously copied, break down each argument one by one while acting like all of the rest make perfect sense.

Ah, but my faith disallows me from building a syllogism on a shaky premise. While I find the Exodus and etc. reasonable, I wouldn't mind challenging you that the reason you disbelieve isn't evidence or illogic but lack of a desire to be holy. Not moral--holy.

That sure strikes me as a holier-than-thou attitude Consider

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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21-11-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(13-11-2014 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you all familiar with the argument that real eyewitness and/or faithful chroniclers of history should have mostly similar accounts recorded, neither widely diverging nor word-for-word identical? Wouldn't that be the logical output of eyewitnesses or scribes? Aren't cops and prosecutors made suspicious when witnesses don't merely corroborate evidence but give identical testimonies?

The Q would also like to hear more regarding these chapters being over a century apart in scope and/or authorship.

Thank "q".

Q,
Since you keep harping on the reliability of your "witnesses", please answer this one question: Where did Jesus feed the 5000?
Regards,
Doc
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24-11-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 02:18 PM)microterf Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Ah, but my faith disallows me from building a syllogism on a shaky premise. While I find the Exodus and etc. reasonable, I wouldn't mind challenging you that the reason you disbelieve isn't evidence or illogic but lack of a desire to be holy. Not moral--holy.

The reason I don't believe (and almost all others I would guess) on faith only is that I would then have to apply that to every other religion and believe in them all. The way I look at it, you have two options if you want to be honest with yourself
1. Believe them all
2. Believe None.

until there is other evidence introduced that supports one, such as Christians start recovering from cancer at a much higher rate than any other religious group, etc.

The Koran says Jesus isn't the Son of God. The Bible says Jesus is the Son of God. You cannot logically adhere to both faiths at once.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-11-2014, 10:34 AM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(21-11-2014 05:12 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you all familiar with the argument that real eyewitness and/or faithful chroniclers of history should have mostly similar accounts recorded, neither widely diverging nor word-for-word identical? Wouldn't that be the logical output of eyewitnesses or scribes? Aren't cops and prosecutors made suspicious when witnesses don't merely corroborate evidence but give identical testimonies?

The Q would also like to hear more regarding these chapters being over a century apart in scope and/or authorship.

Thank "q".

Q,
Since you keep harping on the reliability of your "witnesses", please answer this one question: Where did Jesus feed the 5000?
Regards,
Doc

What do you mean "reliability"? I've been harping on their honesty. They aren't testifying to witnessing a crime. They are testifying to personal relationships with Jesus and the apostles...

Answering your question, Jesus fed 5,000 in Matthew 14 and 4,000 in Matthew 15. Christians "savor" meal details like these (pun intended) but others tend to see contradictions here when they lightly skip over details... they are factually two feedings as Jesus referred to one while explaining the other. Is that why you asked?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-11-2014, 10:47 AM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
No. Read my question. Where did Jesus feed the 5000?
Doc
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24-11-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: isaiah 37, 2 kings 19.
(24-11-2014 10:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 02:18 PM)microterf Wrote:  The reason I don't believe (and almost all others I would guess) on faith only is that I would then have to apply that to every other religion and believe in them all. The way I look at it, you have two options if you want to be honest with yourself
1. Believe them all
2. Believe None.

until there is other evidence introduced that supports one, such as Christians start recovering from cancer at a much higher rate than any other religious group, etc.

The Koran says Jesus isn't the Son of God. The Bible says Jesus is the Son of God. You cannot logically adhere to both faiths at once.

You're correct, I worded it wrong. I mean you have to give the same amount of credit to all views if you're using faith unless you come up with some new evidence.

You still haven't answered my question as to "Why do you personally believe?"

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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