it's your choice
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11-05-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 09:52 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I did not get saved until I was 28. Up until that time I was a hard drinker,
a brawler and sexually promiscuous. I was full of hate and anger.
I had been all over the world seeing the violence and squalor that the
third world lived in on a daily basis. I sensed the presence of evil (the devil)
before I came to grips with God. In my rage I cursed God and dared him
to show himself to me.
By circumstances and happenings in my life, he did. Things I survived
that I should not have. I didn't hear spoken words but my consciousness was
increased to a higher level. I began to see things in the world around me
in a different way. In the past, I had read parts of the bible and couldn't
make heads or tails of it. but after, some of it began to make some sense.
looking back in my life I can see that God was always there waiting for me.
God's word says "seek me and you shall find me".
Everybody's journey from dark to the light may be a little different, the way we seek
may not be the same. God meets us all where we are in life....Raphael1

The thing is not everyone makes such poor choices as you did. Apparently you needed a change, and perhaps were suffering from PTSD from what you saw in the 3rd World, and the poor choices you made for yourself. There are perfectly (actually much more) reasonable explanations for what you experienced. You had no other paradigm by which to explain it, as your education on these matters, and "religious experiences" was rather poor, and had no other tools to work with. So you resort to "Oh Jebus saved me". "Salvation" is a very "non-biblical" concept. It was an idea which was attached to the new cult by Paul of Tarsus. Jebus never said "Just wait ... I'ma gonna die for you so you can be saved". It's an ancient naive simplistic childish paradigm useful for those who got have nothing better, and who can't deal in complex mental images and paradigms.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-05-2014, 05:00 PM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 09:52 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I did not get saved until I was 28. Up until that time I was a hard drinker,
a brawler and sexually promiscuous. I was full of hate and anger.
I had been all over the world seeing the violence and squalor that the
third world lived in on a daily basis. I sensed the presence of evil (the devil)
before I came to grips with God. In my rage I cursed God and dared him
to show himself to me.
By circumstances and happenings in my life, he did. Things I survived
that I should not have. I didn't hear spoken words but my consciousness was
increased to a higher level. I began to see things in the world around me
in a different way. In the past, I had read parts of the bible and couldn't
make heads or tails of it. but after, some of it began to make some sense.
looking back in my life I can see that God was always there waiting for me.
God's word says "seek me and you shall find me".
Everybody's journey from dark to the light may be a little different, the way we seek
may not be the same. God meets us all where we are in life....Raphael1


Thanks again for your response and again sorry to be so long getting back to you. My family and I have been out all day hiking to celebrate Mother's Day.

I understand what you are saying and I can't tell you how many people have told me of having a similar experience. I certainly wouldn't deny that you have had these experiences and that they meant a great deal to you.

But not having had them myself here's what I find difficult to understand. Lots of people have experiences like that and they attribute them to another god or to another supernatural explanation. Here is what I don't get: How can anyone ever be certain that these feelings they have are the result of a god intervening in subtle ways in their lives and not just their subjective feelings and a strong need to believe that there is a higher power out there that is in control?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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11-05-2014, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2014 05:21 PM by joben1.)
RE: it's your choice
(10-05-2014 08:20 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 08:15 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Hey Skippy,

If we can only condemn ourselves to hell doesn't it follow that we are also the only ones that can save ourselves from hell?

So, what's your purpose here?
That's right, absolutely right!! your choice determines your destiny, choose Jesus
or choose hell...YOUR choice....
my purpose is the salvation of sinners not so much different than myself..
....Raphael1

I choose hell cos god's a dick. Yeah he's real but who'd wanna spend time with a dick?

...not really, but I DO believe in cod.
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11-05-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 05:16 PM)joben1 Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 08:20 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  That's right, absolutely right!! your choice determines your destiny, choose Jesus
or choose hell...YOUR choice....
my purpose is the salvation of sinners not so much different than myself..
....Raphael1

I choose hell cos god's a dick. Yeah he's real but who'd wanna spend time with a dick?

...not really, but I DO believe in cod.

Hmmm. Sounds fishy to me.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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11-05-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: it's your choice
"If you are right, and there is no God, then we all just cease to exist at our death and what we do does not really make any difference."

Ok so I'm tired of hearing Christians say this. Life is beautiful. It's the miracle of the universe and the point is to make it the best for yourself and everyone you can affect. Everything you do makes a difference. You should love the life you have instead of ignoring the real world and blindly following a book that supports slavery, beating women, and genocide. If you believe that only a bearded man in the sky can destroy the earth then you ignore the real world problems like pollution and climate change.
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11-05-2014, 10:58 PM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 08:45 PM)Jmspencer11 Wrote:  "If you are right, and there is no God, then we all just cease to exist at our death and what we do does not really make any difference."

Ok so I'm tired of hearing Christians say this. Life is beautiful. It's the miracle of the universe and the point is to make it the best for yourself and everyone you can affect. Everything you do makes a difference. You should love the life you have instead of ignoring the real world and blindly following a book that supports slavery, beating women, and genocide. If you believe that only a bearded man in the sky can destroy the earth then you ignore the real world problems like pollution and climate change.

Well said, i think this is exactly whats wrong with the world today..well 1 out of many things but i think this is the first step. It's dangerous to believe in something so much you ignore whats actually going on around you. The mindset that God brings tornadoes.. or hurricanes.. instead of global warming it gets blamed on mans SINS Their fix? abolish gays! stop the sinning! Live the way they want you to live!... it's sad people are brainwashed into living in a cloud of stupidity.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus
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11-05-2014, 11:35 PM
RE: it's your choice
(10-05-2014 12:53 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  Atheist,

I am a Christian.

Let’s look at this:
If you are right, and there is no God, then we all just cease to exist at our death and what we do does not really make any difference.

All that matters is that I enjoy my time on Earth while I am here.

There is no point planning for a time after when I am dead because I won't exist in order to care about such a time.

No point trying to convert people, or force them to be "moral" against their will. No point wasting precious living time with such things.

I am alive now, and I think I'll go home, give my wife a kiss, hug my children, eat some dinner, play with the kids, put them to bed and then have an enjoyable chat with the wife. That would make today worthwhile, and hopefully I get some more of the same tomorrow.
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12-05-2014, 12:54 AM
RE: it's your choice
I work in a Christian charged atmosphere. And most of the people I work with dislike me because I am atheist. My boss however actively dislikes me. I get a very real sense that she loves the idea I will suffer eternity in hell. That is so sadistic!

I believe raphael1 is very much like my boss, satisfied with us all going to hell in his sadistic little heart. And I believe our hell-bound position validates who he believes he is--Christian.

Don't you get the sense he is "brushing the dirt off his hands," so to speak?

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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12-05-2014, 02:15 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 02:19 AM by Charis.)
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 03:24 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 07:59 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I am 62 years old, male, American.

Yeah right. Or are you a new convert who has had to see a psychologist in the past?

Just guessing here because people don't reach 62 years of age and then feel the need to suddenly troll like a 12 year old unless they have never managed to figure out how the world works due to some psychological abnormality.

This could also be due to his grandkids finally showing him how to use the internet. There's a learning curve. He obviously isn't quite up to par just yet. Might still be figuring out the difference between Chrome and Google. He knew how to actually use a keyboard on a typewriter a long time ago, so he's able to type out the quips he hears in church. He'll need some work in being able to really research things though, by the looks of things. Poor chap.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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12-05-2014, 02:21 AM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 08:45 PM)Jmspencer11 Wrote:  "If you are right, and there is no God, then we all just cease to exist at our death and what we do does not really make any difference."

Ok so I'm tired of hearing Christians say this. Life is beautiful.


Good point. The universe is amazing once you start to learn about it using science. One problem with Pascal's wager is that it misses out the cost of becoming a Christian. Not only do you have to waste time, effort and money being part of a church, you also miss out on appreciating the beauty of the life and the universe in which we are a part of. Instead of being free to marvel up and make your own decisions you end up with guilt and sin.

Pascal's wager is framed in a way that the cost of taking out insurance is supposedly negligible for an incredibly unlikely event but you'd be very happy to have done so if the worst case scenario came out.

But the cost isn't negligible because you have to ruin your life protecting yourself, it's like wearing full body armour every moment from birth to death in the event of a meteorite falling on your head. You might as well be dead if that's what you have to do.
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