it's your choice
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12-05-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 08:41 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 02:21 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Good point. The universe is amazing once you start to learn about it using science. One problem with Pascal's wager is that it misses out the cost of becoming a Christian. Not only do you have to waste time, effort and money being part of a church, you also miss out on appreciating the beauty of the life and the universe in which we are a part of. Instead of being free to marvel up and make your own decisions you end up with guilt and sin.

Pascal's wager is framed in a way that the cost of taking out insurance is supposedly negligible for an incredibly unlikely event but you'd be very happy to have done so if the worst case scenario came out.

But the cost isn't negligible because you have to ruin your life protecting yourself, it's like wearing full body armour every moment from birth to death in the event of a meteorite falling on your head. You might as well be dead if that's what you have to do.
The universe we live in is full of amazing beauty. We like going to the planetarium
and seeing all of the beautiful features in space. Nebulae, gas clouds, star clusters.
The sheer size and distance is quite humbling as we are such a tiny microscopic
spec in all of this grandeur.
We like to pack a camp on the mules and ride into a pristine mountain lake.
It is a long difficult trail in but when you come up over the side of the mountain
& begin to drop down into the lake amongst the high peaks, it is absolutely
breathtaking.
Early in the morning at first light, the lake is perfectly still, reflecting like a
perfect mirror. There is a mist hanging over the water with beams of sunlight
coming thru the mist. A few birds singing. It is so peaceful & calming...
...Raphael1....

A Bulwer-Lytton entry, perhaps?

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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12-05-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 08:49 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Hey $2000 says the Seahawks win the last super bowl.

actually, check out Isaiah 53. definitely "before the fact by about 700 years.
....Raphael1


Isaiah 52 (New Century Version)


1 Wake up, wake up, Jerusalem! Become strong! Be beautiful again, holy city of Jerusalem. will not enter you again. 2 Jerusalem, you once were a prisoner. Now shake off the dust and stand up. Jerusalem, you once were a prisoner. Now free yourself from the chains around your neck. 3 This is what the Lord says: "You were not sold for a price, so you will be saved without cost." 4 This is what the Lord God says: "First my people went down to Egypt to live. Later Assyria made them slaves. 5 "Now see what has happened," says the Lord. "Another nation has taken away my people for nothing. This nation who rules them makes fun of me," says the Lord. "All day long they speak against me. 6 This has happened so my people will know who I am, and so, on that future day, they will know that I am the one speaking to them. It will really be me." 7 How beautiful is the person who comes over the mountains to bring good news, who announces peace and brings good news, who announces salvation and says to Jerusalem, "Your God is King." 8 Listen! Your guards are shouting. They are all shouting for joy! They all will see with their own eyes when the Lord returns to Jerusalem. 9 Jerusalem, your buildings are destroyed now, but shout and rejoice together, because the Lord has comforted his people. He has saved Jerusalem. 10 The Lord will show his holy power to all the nations. Then everyone on earth will see the salvation of our God. 11 You people, leave, leave; get out of Babylon! Touch nothing that is unclean. You men who carry the Lord's things used in worship, leave there and make yourselves pure. 12 You will not be forced to leave Babylon quickly; you will not be forced to run away, because the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel will guard you from behind. 13 The Lord says, "See, my servant will act wisely. People will greatly honor and respect him. 14 Many people were shocked when they saw him. His appearance was so changed he did not look like a man; his form was changed so much they could barely tell he was human. 15 But now he will surprise many nations. Kings will be amazed and shut their mouths. They will see things they had not been told about him, and they will understand things they had not heard."


Isaiah 53 (New Century Version)


1 Who would have believed what we heard? Who saw the Lord's power in this? 2 He grew up like a small plant before the Lord, like a root growing in a dry land. He had no special beauty or form to make us notice him; there was nothing in his appearance to make us desire him. 3 He was hated and rejected by people. He had much pain and suffering. People would not even look at him. He was hated, and we didn't even notice him. 4 But he took our suffering on him and felt our pain for us. We saw his suffering and thought God was punishing him. 5 But he was wounded for the wrong we did; he was crushed for the evil we did. The punishment, which made us well, was given to him, and we are healed because of his wounds. 6 We all have wandered away like sheep; each of us has gone his own way. for all the evil we have done. 7 He was beaten down and punished, but he didn't say a word. He was like a lamb being led to be killed. He was quiet, as a sheep is quiet while its wool is being cut; he never opened his mouth. 8 Men took him away roughly and unfairly. He died without children to continue his family. He was put to death; he was punished for the sins of my people. 9 He was buried with wicked men, and he died with the rich. He had done nothing wrong, and he had never lied. 10 But it was the Lord who decided to crush him and make him suffer. The Lord made his life a penalty offering, but he will still see his descendants and live a long life. He will complete the things the Lord wants him to do. 11 "After his soul suffers many things, he will see life and be satisfied. My good servant will make many people right with God; he will carry away their sins. 12 For this reason I will make him a great man among people, and he will share in all things with those who are strong. He willingly gave his life and was treated like a criminal. But he carried away the sins of many people and asked forgiveness for those who sinned."


Isaiah 54 (New Century Version)


1 The Lord says, "Sing, Jerusalem. You are like a woman who never gave birth to children. Start singing and shout for joy. You never felt the pain of giving birth, but you will have more children than the woman who has a husband. 2 Make your tent bigger; stretch it out and make it wider. Do not hold back. Make the ropes longer and its stakes stronger, 3 because you will spread out to the right and to the left. Your children will take over other nations, and they will again live in cities that once were destroyed. 4 "Don't be afraid, because you will not be ashamed. Don't be embarrassed, because you will not be disgraced. You will forget the shame you felt earlier; you will not remember the shame you felt when you lost your husband. 5 The God who made you is like your husband. His name is the Lord All-Powerful. The Holy One of Israel is the one who saves you. He is called the God of all the earth. 6 You were like a woman whose husband left her, and you were very sad. You were like a wife who married young and then her husband left her. But the Lord called you to be his," says your God. 7 God says, "I left you for a short time, but with great kindness I will bring you back again. 8 I became very angry and hid from you for a time, but I will show you mercy with kindness forever," says the Lord who saves you. 9 The Lord says, "This day is like the time of Noah to me. I promised then that I would never flood the world again. In the same way, I promise I will not be angry with you or punish you again. 10 The mountains may disappear, and the hills may come to an end, but my love will never disappear; my promise of peace will not come to an end," says the Lord who shows mercy to you. 11 "You poor city. Storms have hurt you, and you have not been comforted. But I will rebuild you with turquoise stones, and I will build your foundations with sapphires. 12 I will use rubies to build your walls and shining jewels for the gates and precious jewels for all your outer walls. 13 All your children will be taught by the Lord, and they will have much peace. 14 I will build you using fairness. You will be safe from those who would hurt you, so you will have nothing to fear. Nothing will come to make you afraid. 15 I will not send anyone to attack you, and you will defeat those who do attack you. 16 "See, I made the blacksmith. He fans the fire to make it hotter, and he makes the kind of tool he wants. In the same way I have made the destroyer to destroy. 17 So no weapon that is used against you will defeat you. You will show that those who speak against you are wrong. These are the good things my servants receive. Their victory comes from me," says the Lord.

Hmmm nope when put in context no it doesn't.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-05-2014, 09:31 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 08:53 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:41 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  The universe we live in is full of amazing beauty. We like going to the planetarium
and seeing all of the beautiful features in space. Nebulae, gas clouds, star clusters.
The sheer size and distance is quite humbling as we are such a tiny microscopic
spec in all of this grandeur.
We like to pack a camp on the mules and ride into a pristine mountain lake.
It is a long difficult trail in but when you come up over the side of the mountain
& begin to drop down into the lake amongst the high peaks, it is absolutely
breathtaking.
Early in the morning at first light, the lake is perfectly still, reflecting like a
perfect mirror. There is a mist hanging over the water with beams of sunlight
coming thru the mist. A few birds singing. It is so peaceful & calming...
...Raphael1....

A Bulwer-Lytton entry, perhaps?
nope, just a Raphael1 entry
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12-05-2014, 09:36 AM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 11:35 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 12:53 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  Atheist,

I am a Christian.

Let’s look at this:
If you are right, and there is no God, then we all just cease to exist at our death and what we do does not really make any difference.

All that matters is that I enjoy my time on Earth while I am here.

There is no point planning for a time after when I am dead because I won't exist in order to care about such a time.

No point trying to convert people, or force them to be "moral" against their will. No point wasting precious living time with such things.

I am alive now, and I think I'll go home, give my wife a kiss, hug my children, eat some dinner, play with the kids, put them to bed and then have an enjoyable chat with the wife. That would make today worthwhile, and hopefully I get some more of the same tomorrow.
As I said...not trying to force anyone...just letting people know that
they have the choice...Raphael1
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12-05-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 09:36 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  As I said...not trying to force anyone...just letting people know that
they have the choice
...Raphael1

Man, I'm so glad you came along..... I never would have guessed that I have a choice and can make up my own mind...... just genius. Dodgy

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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12-05-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 09:40 AM)War Horse Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 09:36 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  As I said...not trying to force anyone...just letting people know that
they have the choice
...Raphael1

Man, I'm so glad you came along..... I never would have guessed that I have a choice and can make up my own mind...... just genius. Dodgy

Yeah. And none of us had ever heard about the bible before, good thing this guy knows so much about it. Facepalm

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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12-05-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 09:36 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  As I said...not trying to force anyone...just letting people know that
they have the choice...Raphael1

Oh the irony. If what you are saying was actually true we wouldn't have a choice. It's like a mugger pointing a gun at your head, demanding your wallet and saying "it's your choice"

Except in this case the gun and the mugger don't actually exist. It's just someone trying to convince you to give over 10% of your wallet and to stay in your house.

How exactly would you force someone Raphael? This is an internet forum. It's not like you know anyone's address and can come round with a baseball bat. The most you could do to force someone would be to emotionally manipulate lurkers who have been heavily conditioned to fear Hell since they were born.

Oh look, that's what you are doing.
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12-05-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 09:57 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 09:36 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  As I said...not trying to force anyone...just letting people know that
they have the choice...Raphael1

Oh the irony. If what you are saying was actually true we wouldn't have a choice. It's like a mugger pointing a gun at your head, demanding your wallet and saying "it's your choice"

Except in this case the gun and the mugger don't actually exist. It's just someone trying to convince you to give over 10% of your wallet and to stay in your house.

How exactly would you force someone Raphael? This is an internet forum. It's not like you know anyone's address and can come round with a baseball bat. The most you could do to force someone would be to emotionally manipulate lurkers who have been heavily conditioned to fear Hell since they were born.

Oh look, that's what you are doing.

But they get a trip on a mule and a sunrise. When do you ever hear of atheists appreciating scenery? Huh? Huh?

Facepalm

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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12-05-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: it's your choice
Someone likes to preach. You have given no reason for belief. At all. So.... piss off.
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12-05-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 10:01 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 09:57 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Oh the irony. If what you are saying was actually true we wouldn't have a choice. It's like a mugger pointing a gun at your head, demanding your wallet and saying "it's your choice"

Except in this case the gun and the mugger don't actually exist. It's just someone trying to convince you to give over 10% of your wallet and to stay in your house.

How exactly would you force someone Raphael? This is an internet forum. It's not like you know anyone's address and can come round with a baseball bat. The most you could do to force someone would be to emotionally manipulate lurkers who have been heavily conditioned to fear Hell since they were born.

Oh look, that's what you are doing.

But they get a trip on a mule and a sunrise. When do you ever hear of atheists appreciating scenery? Huh? Huh?

Facepalm
Atheists can't appreciate beauty, you see. Atheists can only be angry. Only those with god's spirit can appreciate the splendor of god's creation. Atheists can only take joy in that which is corrupt. They can't even appreciate a baby's smile. They only see the seasoning on the baby.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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