it's your choice
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12-05-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 10:05 AM)Charis Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 10:01 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  But they get a trip on a mule and a sunrise. When do you ever hear of atheists appreciating scenery? Huh? Huh?

Facepalm
Atheists can't appreciate beauty, you see. Atheists can only be angry. Only those with god's spirit can appreciate the splendor of god's creation. Atheists can only take joy in that which is corrupt. They can't even appreciate a baby's smile. They only see the seasoning on the baby.

Do I smell........ paprika????? Drooling

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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12-05-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 09:40 AM)War Horse Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 09:36 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  As I said...not trying to force anyone...just letting people know that
they have the choice
...Raphael1

Man, I'm so glad you came along..... I never would have guessed that I have a choice and can make up my own mind...... just genius. Dodgy

Man I wish Muhammed1, Krishna1, Kolob1 and all the other Wise1 would show up with the same arguments and quotes from their holy books so I really could have a choice.
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12-05-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: it's your choice
(10-05-2014 09:45 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 09:43 PM)Leo Wrote:  I think your logic skills are pure shit and very childish. Growups with common sense don't accept this fairly tales.

Your choice...Raphael1



Weeeeeeeeeeeee
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When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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12-05-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: it's your choice
(11-05-2014 05:00 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(11-05-2014 09:52 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I did not get saved until I was 28. Up until that time I was a hard drinker,
a brawler and sexually promiscuous. I was full of hate and anger.
I had been all over the world seeing the violence and squalor that the
third world lived in on a daily basis. I sensed the presence of evil (the devil)
before I came to grips with God. In my rage I cursed God and dared him
to show himself to me.
By circumstances and happenings in my life, he did. Things I survived
that I should not have. I didn't hear spoken words but my consciousness was
increased to a higher level. I began to see things in the world around me
in a different way. In the past, I had read parts of the bible and couldn't
make heads or tails of it. but after, some of it began to make some sense.
looking back in my life I can see that God was always there waiting for me.
God's word says "seek me and you shall find me".
Everybody's journey from dark to the light may be a little different, the way we seek
may not be the same. God meets us all where we are in life....Raphael1


Thanks again for your response and again sorry to be so long getting back to you. My family and I have been out all day hiking to celebrate Mother's Day.

I understand what you are saying and I can't tell you how many people have told me of having a similar experience. I certainly wouldn't deny that you have had these experiences and that they meant a great deal to you.

But not having had them myself here's what I find difficult to understand. Lots of people have experiences like that and they attribute them to another god or to another supernatural explanation. Here is what I don't get: How can anyone ever be certain that these feelings they have are the result of a god intervening in subtle ways in their lives and not just their subjective feelings and a strong need to believe that there is a higher power out there that is in control?
Be careful of who, and how you seek. Feelings can be dangerous. The devil can
put feelings on people too. Feelings with bad results.
I spent time reading the bible and talking to God. you talk to God like you
talk to a person...he is. You pray. Ps:25:4,5
show me your ways,O Lord; teach me your paths.
Lead me in your truths and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation;
on you I wait all the day.....Raphael1
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12-05-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 11:01 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(11-05-2014 05:00 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Thanks again for your response and again sorry to be so long getting back to you. My family and I have been out all day hiking to celebrate Mother's Day.

I understand what you are saying and I can't tell you how many people have told me of having a similar experience. I certainly wouldn't deny that you have had these experiences and that they meant a great deal to you.

But not having had them myself here's what I find difficult to understand. Lots of people have experiences like that and they attribute them to another god or to another supernatural explanation. Here is what I don't get: How can anyone ever be certain that these feelings they have are the result of a god intervening in subtle ways in their lives and not just their subjective feelings and a strong need to believe that there is a higher power out there that is in control?
Be careful of who, and how you seek. Feelings can be dangerous. The devil can
put feelings on people too. Feelings with bad results.
I spent time reading the bible and talking to God. you talk to God like you
talk to a person...he is. You pray. Ps:25:4,5
show me your ways,O Lord; teach me your paths.
Lead me in your truths and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation;
on you I wait all the day.....Raphael1

Buuut Yahveh is the bad guy according to the bible. How many people god kills ? Millions and how many people Satan kills or harms ? Few if any Thumbsup
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12-05-2014, 11:24 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 11:08 AM)Leo Wrote:  ...
how many people Satan kills or harms ? Few if any Thumbsup

Satan dealt Job a blow or two!

Smartass

But he was only following orders.

And the story had a happy ending.

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12-05-2014, 11:28 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Didn't God tell Jesus he was going to die and be resurrected?

Maybe I am wrong, but if that's the case then it wasn't a prediction made by Jesus but rather the relaying of information.

Still wondering...anyone have an answer? It doesn't have to be from Skippy since he has ignored this any way.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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12-05-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 11:28 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Didn't God tell Jesus he was going to die and be resurrected?

Maybe I am wrong, but if that's the case then it wasn't a prediction made by Jesus but rather the relaying of information.

Still wondering...anyone have an answer? It doesn't have to be from Skippy since he has ignored this any way.
I can get you an answer later on. It may be kinda long. In short, no not quite.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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12-05-2014, 12:42 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 12:53 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: it's your choice
(10-05-2014 12:53 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  Atheist,

I am a Christian.

Let’s look at this:
If you are right, and there is no God, then we all just cease to exist at our death and what we do does not really make any difference.

Says who? Why do you think a god is necessary for your life to have meaning?

Quote:Except I KNOW that I have attempted in my life to always do the right thing, not always successfully but my effort is still there.

Who doesn't? I fail to see how you are an exception in this case.

Quote:Now on the other hand, if I am right and I KNOW that I am...

You KNOW?

As in absolute epistemic certainty?

Are you claiming to be infallible, a trait no human has been documented to possess?

You are most certainly convinced, but that is not the same as knowing.

Quote:...then at my death, I will go to heaven not because I am such a good person (I’m not) but because God so loved the world (you and me) that He gave His only begotten son (Jesus) that whosoever (you and me) believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life (heaven). John 3:16

Yes, that's the claim, anyway. Claims don't hold much weight without evidence.

Quote:Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life; NOBODY comes to the Father but by me.”

David Icke claims the world is controlled by reptilian shape-shifting aliens.

Claims are easy to make, but supporting them is another story.

Quote:All we’ve got to do is acknowledge our sinful state and ask Him to forgive us and save us.

Except I can't acknowledge such because I don't recognize sin as a legitimate concept affecting tangible reality.

Quote:He WILL and if I am right, and I know that I am...


I'll say it again. You need to learn the difference between conviction and truth.

Quote:...then you will spend eternity in anguish and pain in hell.

There you go with the unsupported claims again.

Quote:I am sorry…

Sorry about what?

If you are right, then according to you we chose hell out of our own volition.

If you somehow manage to pull off the unfathomable feat of converting somebody with your fallacious and flimsy appeals, they are saved.

If you are wrong, none of it is a concern.

So what are you apologizing for?

Quote:God does not want anyone to go into hell and he gave us a way out (Jesus). God wants all of us to be in heaven with Him.

I call bullshit.

If he really is as omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent as your lot claims, and was truly concerned with our well being, he wouldn't handle his "relations" with us with such appallingly convoluted ineptitude.

He doesn't seem like a god that wants to be understood, which puts a hamper on your claim that he wants all of us to be there with him in heaven.

Quote:……………………………………….. The CHOICE is yours.........Raphael1

That's funny, I hear the exact opposite from Christians of other denominations.

Well I'd like to inform you that I made my choice awhile ago, and your input was neither welcomed nor appreciated.

I'll tell you why in the form of a couple of questions, for you.

Would you help others if you didn't believe in God?

Can one only be moral if a cosmic big brother is watching over you?

Is the concept of altruism trivialized when it is a self-serving means to an end rather than an end in itself?

Is it possible for unconditional love to be coerced?

Do you believe in malum in se? Do you believe in intrinsic good?

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12-05-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 11:28 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Didn't God tell Jesus he was going to die and be resurrected?

Maybe I am wrong, but if that's the case then it wasn't a prediction made by Jesus but rather the relaying of information.

Still wondering...anyone have an answer? It doesn't have to be from Skippy since he has ignored this any way.

Jesus predicts his death and resurrection in all the canonical gospels in more or less explicit terms, but I don't think that God anywhere informs a previously ignorant Jesus about all that. Here's one of the more clear-cut predictions:

Matthew 20:17-19 (NIV)
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”

But it's not exactly clear how Jesus is supposed to have known this, it depends on your epistemology within your Christology, and we all know the fine tradition of unanimous agreement within Christianity over those issues.

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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