it's your choice
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13-05-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 02:50 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  [Image: aVSVQ.png]

Pascal's true wager.

That's very interesting Thumbsup It certainly makes it easy to look up the batshit quotient in a convenient and handy way, I always like to know where I stand.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-05-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: it's your choice
My problems with the op's position are:-

Faith. This is no longer the belief in something with a lack of evidence but inspite of evidence to the contrary. For example, if the op is a fundamentalist/literalist, he needs to get his information about the age of the earth straight. The Bible is categorically wrong. Also, we did not descend from only 1 pair of humans.

Even if he is not fundamentalist, which of the 4 accounts of the crucifixion are correct and why?

Why do cbristians persecute gays and ignore rules about shellfish and linen mixing from the same book?

How do you account for visions, gods showing themselves to be true and spirituality confirming experiences from other religions?

Why does god help middle class people in the Bible belt of America find their car keys whilst a parasite bores through a 4 year olds eye in the 3rd world?

Why do all double blind tests show prayer does nothing?

When people think prayer DOES work, why are they willfully ignorant of proven phenomena like the placebo effect?

Why do they come on atheist forums assuming we require an imaginary friend?

Why do they come on atheist forums assuming none of us were ever religious?

Why do they take positions that have been debunked decades ago, sometimes centuries?

Why do they not search the threads first to see their tired old waffle has been tried here 1000s of times?

Why have they never checked both sides of the argument and prepared themselves to discuss properly?

Why do they assume superiority, especially when their lack of humility, knowledge and preparation actually demonstrate humanitarian, intellectual and spiritual deficiency?

Why do they always avoid simple and direct questions?

Why do they offer nothing but anecdotes as evidence?

Why do they think their personal beliefs are not up for debate, when it is those very beliefs that catalyse their votes and influence society which is ours too?

Why can they not understand that a belief system which oppresses, marginalises and ostracises entire communities in spite of how demonstrably wrong they are makes them the immorally corrupt vermin of society?

One day, we'll get an honest one on here, who answers, I don't know, or, I never thought of it like that!

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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13-05-2014, 07:25 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2014 08:16 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 08:49 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 01:40 PM)djhall Wrote:  Since Raphael1 was kind enough to try to save us, I suppose we should do the same for him. Obviously Raphael simply stopped reading too soon. However, I'm sure the following will be quite convincing:

“Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no god but Allâh. And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.” 5:73

They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God (innahu man yushrik biAllahi),- God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. S. 5:72

They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. S. 5:73

All you've got to do is acknowledge your sinful state and ask Allah to forgive you and save you. He WILL, and if I am right, and I know that I am, then you will spend eternity in anguish and pain in hell. I am sorry… Allah does not want anyone to go into hell and he gave us a way out (Mohammad). Allah wants all of us to be in paradise.

……………………………………….. The CHOICE is yours.........djhall

EDIT: I know you were a drinker and promiscuous and survived things you shouldn't have, and through that experience you came to know god, and you find that a very moving story. However, I would ask you to consider whether you, or many of your fellow believers, are convinced enough that you are willing to not only go through the rather normal process of growing up and maturing, but to actually put your life where your beliefs are and take a one-way express ticket to heaven? Surely the example of the many believers that gladly strap on a suicide vest and give their very lives to Allah with his name on their lips are more of a testament to the glory of god than you and your friends who are willing to give up fighting and hangovers and one-night stands in their middle to old ages?
Are you saying that demented people that strap on explosives and blow up
innocent men women & children are glorifying God???..Raphael1

By no current definition that I am aware of, would any of them qualify as "demented". Dementia (as a diagnosis) has specific criteria. They meet none of them. I realize with your lack of education you NEED an explanation for aberrant human behavior, and you have none. So you pull *Satan* out of a hat, (or your religious box of tricks) to serve the roll as an explanation. That may have worked in a pre-scientific age. It no longer works today. It's really time you joined the 21st Century. (Well at least the 19th Century).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-05-2014, 07:38 AM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 07:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:49 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  Are you saying that demented people that strap on explosives and blow up
innocent men women & children are glorifying God???..Raphael1

By no current definition that I am aware of, would any of them qualify as "demented". Dementia (as a diagnosis) has specific criteria. They meet none of them. I realize with your lack of education you NEED an explanation for aberrant human behavior, and you have none. So you pull *Satan* out of a hat, (or your religious box of tricks) to serve the roll as an explanation. That may have worked in a pre-scientific age. It no longer works today. It's really time you joint the 21st Century. (Well at least the 19th Century).


I couldn't agree more with this BB. I have had more than one conversation with Christians who dismiss all scientific arguments out of hand, by simply saying 'Satan guides the hearts of scientists!', the first time I heard it, I laughed but it rapidly loses it's comical edge.

To have a genocidal imaginary friend is bad enough but to counter every single point against a position with the argument 'because Satan', is the theological equivalent of plugging ones own ears and shouting lalalalalalalaaaaa ... Awesome conversion tactics, I bet he gets them flocking to his church Big Grin

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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13-05-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 06:40 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  So as a way of knowing faith is completely unreliable.

The beauty of this is that if you have faith then you know that faith is reliable Rolleyes Because monkey genetics means we ended up with some pretty squirelly stuff in our brains Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-05-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 08:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 06:40 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  So as a way of knowing faith is completely unreliable.

The beauty of this is that if you have faith then you know that faith is reliable Rolleyes Because monkey genetics means we ended up with some pretty squirelly stuff in our brains Tongue

"joint" typo or perhaps I am "demented" Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-05-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 08:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 08:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  The beauty of this is that if you have faith then you know that faith is reliable Rolleyes Because monkey genetics means we ended up with some pretty squirelly stuff in our brains Tongue

"joint" typo or perhaps I am "demented" Tongue

it's you Hobo

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-05-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 08:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 08:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  The beauty of this is that if you have faith then you know that faith is reliable Rolleyes Because monkey genetics means we ended up with some pretty squirelly stuff in our brains Tongue

"joint" typo or perhaps I am "demented" Tongue

I like you demented. Makes me feel better. YAY!
But in your case, I'm gonna go with *dementor* --- weeeeeeeeeeee
[Image: Dementor.jpg]

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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13-05-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 04:42 AM)Dee Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:33 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  If I was satisfied that all of you were going to hell, I would not be here,
enduring this verbal abuse while trying to win a few.

Instead of assuming that your boss doesn't like you cause you are an atheist,
why don't you ask her why she doesn't like you. You might be surprised.

My boss does not like me because I am atheist and she is an idiot. She said, "to me you cannot be other than antichrist and my personal enemy if you do not believe in the existence of God." I did my homework before I spoke Big Grin .
I am sorry that you were hurt by a so called "Christian". Some people claim it
but some of them don't live it. Her words would lead me to doubt if she really was.
Jesus would NOT do that and he does NOT teach us to do that either. We are
supposed to love God and love people and that does NOT specify whether
they are believers or unbelievers.
In his ministry, Jesus spent most of his time with rough people(as I am)
some of whom were believers, some were not. He loves people either way.
.....Raphael1
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13-05-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 06:40 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 11:41 PM)morondog Wrote:  He knows because he knows. This is the definition of faith. You will note the pleasing circularity. God loves circular things, that's why planets go in ellipses. Circular logic honours Him.

Yeah. I have asked and asked the question for years and I have never gotten a cogent answer. One can use circular logic to prove anything. Every religion throughout history has relied on faith and I'm sure that Raphael would tell me that every one of them is wrong even though they have the same things to say that he does, that they feel it deep in their heart that their particular faith is true. So as a way of knowing faith is completely unreliable.

Scotsman.. I sought God and that is how & what I found. I cannot make anyone
believe anything but I can tell people how I did & what I found. Basically,
if you really want to know for sure, you will have to seek him yourself..Raphael1
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