it's your choice
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13-05-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 07:55 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 06:40 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Yeah. I have asked and asked the question for years and I have never gotten a cogent answer. One can use circular logic to prove anything. Every religion throughout history has relied on faith and I'm sure that Raphael would tell me that every one of them is wrong even though they have the same things to say that he does, that they feel it deep in their heart that their particular faith is true. So as a way of knowing faith is completely unreliable.

Scotsman.. I sought God and that is how & what I found. I cannot make anyone
believe anything but I can tell people how I did & what I found. Basically,
if you really want to know for sure, you will have to seek him yourself..Raphael1

Raphael I appreciate that you respond to my questions. I may not find your answers satisfying but I appreciate that you don't just ignore them like so many people.

I think you're right that you can't force anyone to believe. Everyone has to look at the evidence and come to their own conclusion.

Different people have different standards of evidence and I think that it is very important to check your premises often and not become so certain of your beliefs that you refuse to look at opposing ideas. That is what I try to do anyway.

Have a great evening.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-05-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 07:33 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  If I was satisfied that all of you were going to hell, I would not be here,
enduring this verbal abuse while trying to win a few.

Hahahahahahahha.

And how's that working out for you, asshole? How many atheists have you converted here?


Fucking moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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13-05-2014, 09:15 PM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 07:42 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I am sorry that you were hurt by a so called "Christian". Some people claim it
but some of them don't live it. Her words would lead me to doubt if she really was.

Oh, look, the asshole apologist moves the goalposts once again! Run, goalposts, run!

Special Pleading Fallacy: Oh, she's just not being a Good Xtard™.



[quote Jesus would NOT do that and he does NOT teach us to do that either.[/quote]

I'm sorry, who is this person of whom you speak? You have failed to meet -- or even address -- your burden of proof of your claim that such a person existed.



Quote: We are supposed to love God


Nor have you met or addressed your burden of proof in your claim that such an entity exists, either.


Quote:and love people and that does NOT specify whether
they are believers or unbelievers. In his ministry, Jesus spent most of his time with rough people(as I am) some of whom were believers, some were not. He loves people either way.
.....Raphael1

Really not interested in any bullshit you have to claim about fairy tale critters you haven't proven to actually exist.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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13-05-2014, 09:36 PM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 07:33 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  If I was satisfied that all of you were going to hell, I would not be here,
enduring this verbal abuse while trying to win a few.

Please present objective, verifiable evidence for the existence of an alternate plane of reality called 'Hell' (then go collect your Nobel Prize). Until then, kindly shut the fuck up.

I mean, do you even have any fucking idea what fire actually is? I didn't think so...Facepalm





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13-05-2014, 11:48 PM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 07:55 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  Scotsman.. I sought God and that is how & what I found. I cannot make anyone
believe anything but I can tell people how I did & what I found. Basically,
if you really want to know for sure, you will have to seek him yourself..Raphael1

If you'd sought Allah that is who and what you'd find. You're a credulous guy. I and many others have "sought God" and I'm sure you're about to say that we didn't do it right hey, Mr Christian?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-05-2014, 02:46 AM
RE: it's your choice
(13-05-2014 07:42 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I am sorry that you were hurt by a so called "Christian". Some people claim it
but some of them don't live it. Her words would lead me to doubt if she really was.

Classic No True Scotsman fallacy.

When someone points out what a Christian has done the typical response is that they aren't a true Christian. All the while forgetting that the very same Christian would say the same thing about them.

And in another conversation the Christian will talk about how widespread their religion is as if it makes their belief more plausible even though they have previously claimed most of them aren't actually true Christians.

Then if you get them to define what exactly a True Christian is it often turns out to be a vanishingly small cult. Do all the Christians who are not True Christians burn in Hell? That's never answered. But if yes that means God is sending almost all of humanity to Hell. If no then it means we don't have to bother going to church or praying or giving over a tithe and all we need do is claim to be Christian and carry on as normal.
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14-05-2014, 03:25 AM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2014 03:37 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: it's your choice
(14-05-2014 02:46 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 07:42 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  I am sorry that you were hurt by a so called "Christian". Some people claim it
but some of them don't live it. Her words would lead me to doubt if she really was.

Classic No True Scotsman fallacy.

When someone points out what a Christian has done the typical response is that they aren't a true Christian. All the while forgetting that the very same Christian would say the same thing about them.

And in another conversation the Christian will talk about how widespread their religion is as if it makes their belief more plausible even though they have previously claimed most of them aren't actually true Christians.

Then if you get them to define what exactly a True Christian is it often turns out to be a vanishingly small cult. Do all the Christians who are not True Christians burn in Hell? That's never answered. But if yes that means God is sending almost all of humanity to Hell. If no then it means we don't have to bother going to church or praying or giving over a tithe and all we need do is claim to be Christian and carry on as normal.


I imagine our little resident martyr needs a crash course in what a No True Scotsman fallacy actually is. Not that I think It'll prevent him from committing the same fallacy in the future, but at least now he can no longer claim ignorance when called out on it.

This is from YouTuber TherminTrees, who I bevel is the brother (and at the very least a collaborator) of fellow YouTuber QualiaSoup (maker of our ever favorite video on the Burden of Proof).




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14-05-2014, 04:00 AM
RE: it's your choice
Great video.

My Scottish husband once had the No True Scotsman argument used on him, literally, telling him he wasn't a true Scotsman.

Ironically enough he has moaned at me for putting sugar on my porridge.
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14-05-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: it's your choice
(12-05-2014 11:55 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:17 PM)Raphael1 Wrote:  satan thru Hitler started ww2 and 93million people were killed..
satan thru stalin killed 20million of his own people
satan thru mao tse tung killed many millions of Chinese during his revolution
as did his predecessor chaing kai chek
there are a lot more, I don't have the time right now...Raphael1
Except that Hitler was a Catholic who pursued a purely Catholic racist agenda in his attempt to rid the world of "the race that murdered Jeebus", so there's that....

Hitler was a catholic in name only, NOT in action. The bible says
"do not commit murder" and yet he ignored that and murdered millions.
Satan did influence Hitler & the others but they also had a free will "choice"
to do good or evil & they choose evil.
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14-05-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: it's your choice
(14-05-2014 07:56 AM)Raphael1 Wrote:  Hitler was a catholic in name only, NOT in action. The bible says
"do not commit murder" and yet he ignored that and murdered millions.


He also loved his wife, loved animals and was an antivivisectionist.

Christians say that humans are not perfect and only God can judge us. But here you are judging another person and taking it upon yourself to decide that his particular imperfections means that he wasn't a Christian despite his own professed beliefs.

How do you decide (rather than leaving it up to your god) that an imperfection is large enough to say that someone is not a Christian? When they eat shellfish? When they wear garments made from two kinds of material mixed together? When they don't like a colleague for being an atheist? When they violate one of the ten commandments? When they commit genocide?

No one follows the Bible 100% no matter how hard they try. Either Hitler was a Christian or no one is.
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