jesus is real
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30-11-2011, 01:02 PM
RE: jesus is real
Not one writer/chronicler/historian who was alive during the time that Jesus was supposedly alive and performing miracles writes anything about Jesus. Not one. Nada. Zilch.

All of the citations listed above are for writings that occur well after Jesus's time.

The very existence of Jesus is questionable.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-11-2011, 01:26 PM
RE: jesus is real
(28-11-2011 09:39 AM)thatchristianguy Wrote:  ok guys look Jesus is real i asked YALL to prove to ME that He isnt so far yall haven't all you have done is ask me to prove things. Let me ask you this can you see air? Can you feel air? NO! but you believe that its there without it you wouldnt be able to live its the same thing. You cant see Him but you believe in Him its basically like child like faith you tell a child santa is real he believes you why wouldnt he he has no proof that he's not. Like i said i asked yall to prove to me that He's not real there is evedience all around that He is. be for real your tellin me that nothing was there and nothing happened to nothing which caused nothing to explode and create everything now that makes no sense. Now like I said PROVE TO ME!!!

First Jesus isn't is name so if you want him to exist so much call him by his real name. Second how can you compare air and human... from what I know Yeshua did exist, there's indeed prove of it... but there's no prove of his miracles, there's no proof of him acending to the sky, there's no proof of him being a Messiah. If you come back saying that you have proof of his doing, than I'll take that you need to PROVE it too.

The game you're playing can be played by two and will never end... you might as well give up. Undecided

There was a time when religion ruled the world. It is known as the Dark Ages.
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30-11-2011, 01:55 PM
RE: jesus is real
(28-11-2011 09:39 AM)thatchristianguy Wrote:  Let me ask you this can you see air? Can you feel air? NO!

Alright slow down there youngster! Let's do a quick experiment...

Now the "Can you see air?" Normally under normal conditions no you cannot see air. However if air is condensed and somthing passes through it at a high rate of speed you can cactually see the air move in the wake of the passing object. Similar to seeing waves behind a speedboat in the water.

Now the experiment... Can you feel air? Blow on your arm.... Did you feel that?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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30-11-2011, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2011 02:11 PM by morondog.)
RE: jesus is real
(29-11-2011 06:15 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  
(21-11-2011 12:25 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  How bout you give us some evidence that jesus is real. But good pieces of evidence, not dumb ones, ok?
Now, the argument.

Based on reading the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus majority consensus is that Jesus was more or less certainly a *historical* figure.

To answer your points:
1. The resurrection one is kinda... hmmm. OK so these jokers *believed* Jesus was the one, but there are plenty of examples of modern day people dying with conviction for something which was wrong. Or are suicide bombers not deluded? I'm afraid textual evidence, in the form of stories about random peasants dying nobly, from 2000 years ago, of debatable origin, is not sufficient evidence (in my opinion, which I freely admit is mine and therefore fallible) for Jesus the 2000 year old super hero who's apparently still alive even after being very firmly attached to the furniture. You need something more.
2. The rest of your evidence relates to Historical Jesus.
Dang, sorry Defacto7, didn't notice your reply - looks like even Historical Jesus is debatable! Eish Big Grin
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30-11-2011, 02:16 PM
Thumbs Up RE: jesus is real
(30-11-2011 10:42 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  May I introduce you to the facts?

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/camel.html

Read up! Than come back with a real argument, if one exists.

Your case in point above has been reduced to rubble for a very long time. It is tedious to repeat the same old arguments. So if you are really interested in reality, read the above or the many, many posts on this site that take all of those points and many more you have not mentioned and rethink your data. It's non-existent.

Taking a read through this right now...

I've assumed that on some level a historical Jesus existed (with regard to this thread, the simple existence of Jesus is obviously not what the OP thinks is being challenged, but rather the divinity). Upon my de-conversion I believed that the divinity of the historical Jesus was most likely just a gross embellishment of a (or multiple) human beings.

So this read is interesting. Thanks for providing it.
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30-11-2011, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2011 02:57 PM by HeWillPrevail.)
RE: jesus is real
Evidence that Jesus is real, died and rose again from the grave? Simple. Christianity exists today. If the disciples knew Jesus' existence and/or resurrection to be a lie, why did they allow themselves to be tortured and killed for what they knew to be a lie?
Before you say mistaken identity, the disciples had been with Jesus for three years. They would know who he was. And before you say the Bible isn't a relevant historical document, please tell me how a book that is able to record the past and predict the future accurately is not relevant or true.
Secondly, don't say they hallucinated. Two people, let alone a number of people, do not hallucinate the same event happening the same way. It's like a group of people dreaming the same exact dream. It doesn't happen.
To end on a high note, thank you for reading this. If you are a member on The ThinkingAtheist, then I feel some admiration. You care enough about your own belief to join a website to talk about it. That's good. I hate when people I talk to don't care at all about their worldview or expressing it. You do. Again, that's good. But, I will plead for one thing. That you would come to Christ. I want to see you in heaven. Atheists, you might mock my God, but he still wants to spend eternity with you. Don't forget that. I pray to my LORD through his son Jesus Christ that he will reveal the truth to you, and that you will repent from your ways.
I was not unlike you. I ran from God. I hate him. But now I don't. I adore him. I pray that while you still may be running away from God, and one point you will turn back.


(30-11-2011 02:05 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-11-2011 06:15 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  
(21-11-2011 12:25 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  How bout you give us some evidence that jesus is real. But good pieces of evidence, not dumb ones, ok?
Now, the argument.

Based on reading the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus majority consensus is that Jesus was more or less certainly a *historical* figure.

To answer your points:
1. The resurrection one is kinda... hmmm. OK so these jokers *believed* Jesus was the one, but there are plenty of examples of modern day people dying with conviction for something which was wrong. Or are suicide bombers not deluded? I'm afraid textual evidence, in the form of stories about random peasants dying nobly, from 2000 years ago, of debatable origin, is not sufficient evidence (in my opinion, which I freely admit is mine and therefore fallible) for Jesus the 2000 year old super hero who's apparently still alive even after being very firmly attached to the furniture. You need something more.
2. The rest of your evidence relates to Historical Jesus.
Dang, sorry Defacto7, didn't notice your reply - looks like even Historical Jesus is debatable! Eish Big Grin

Yes, people die for what is wrong. But why would "these jokers", as you put them, die for something they know is wrong. Suicide bombers don't die for what they KNOW is wrong, they die for what IS wrong. A person will die for their belief, but they won't die for something that they know is impossible, true, etc.
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30-11-2011, 03:04 PM
RE: jesus is real
Gotta be honest here, the "compliments" about being good people and whatnot just don't wash, when they are followed by telling us we should accept your world view and repent from our ways.

Sugar coat it all you like, jamming your religion down our throats with rediculous, illogocal arguments won't really get you anywhere.

I will plead for one thing. That you would come to The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I want to see you embraced by his noodly appendage. Christians, you may mock FSM, but he still wants to share his meatballs with you. Don't forget that.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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30-11-2011, 03:06 PM
RE: jesus is real
(30-11-2011 02:53 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  Evidence that Jesus is real, died and rose again from the grave? Simple. Christianity exists today. ...

And before you say the Bible isn't a relevant historical document, please tell me how a book that is able to record the past and predict the future accurately is not relevant or true. ...

That Christianity exists today is not proof that it's true. Astrology exists today; homeopathy exists today; Islam exists today; many things that aren't true exist today.

The New Testament books were not written during Jesus's tine, but much later. These are in no way eyewitness accounts of events. The Bible does not record history accurately, and please tell us what the Bible accurately predicts.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-11-2011, 03:06 PM
RE: jesus is real
(30-11-2011 02:53 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  Evidence that Jesus is real, died and rose again from the grave? Simple. Christianity exists today. If the disciples knew Jesus' existence and/or resurrection to be a lie, why did they allow themselves to be tortured and killed for what they knew to be a lie?

First off its not like they choose to be tortured and killed. That could have happened regardless of their beliefs. most likely due to them putting out ideas that people of other faiths disagreed with, something christianity itself is guilty of but i wont go into it as its off topic.

Things get lost throughout time mistranslated, rumour mistaken as facts, Things borrowed from other faiths being reused to fit another belief (jesus origin story for example). Which is more likely to be what happened for the story surrounding jesus than him performing magic.

The fact that christianity exists today is no more proof for the existance of jesus than starwars is proof of the existance of darth vader.

Behold the power of the force!
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30-11-2011, 03:08 PM
RE: jesus is real
Yes, people die for what is wrong. But why would "these jokers", as you put them, die for something they know is wrong. Suicide bombers don't die for what they KNOW is wrong, they die for what IS wrong. A person will die for their belief, but they won't die for something that they know is impossible, true, etc.


HWP..

Who says they died...?
Who says they even existed....?
Who says they were martyred...?

Try this....
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/matthew.htm

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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