male circumcision of minors should be a felony
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09-10-2017, 12:16 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 11:55 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:44 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  As has already been explained in this discussion, sucking the blood has become a fairly rare practice. I have been present at a lot of ritual circumcisions, and I have never seen the mohel do this. Circumcision on the eighth day is commanded in the bible for the descendents of Avraham. Sucking the blood is not commanded, and mostly stopped being practiced once Jewish communities learned of the health risk.

Mm I must have missed that somehow but thanks for the condescending tone, I still want to understand the rationale behind the infrequent baby fellatio though.

Sucking the blood is described as part of the procedure in the Talmud. The Talmudic reasoning was basically that it was for hygiene. They probably weren't completely wrong, since doctors didn't sanitize their surgical knives until the late nineteenth century. The saliva might have given some protection against the unsanitized blade, but at the cost of possibly transmitting a disease from the mohel to the baby. Jewish laws are either Rabbinic in origin, or they are Divine commandments written in the bible. There is also a third category called halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai. Sucking the blood appears to be Rabbinic rather than d'oreisa or halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai, and that makes it easier to stop following in accordance with it, provided compelling enough reasons to do so. The spread of infection from the mohel was compelling enough for most Jewish communities to stop doing it. But circumcision itself would be impossible to stop, since it is explicitly commanded on the eighth day in the bible.
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09-10-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 12:16 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:55 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Mm I must have missed that somehow but thanks for the condescending tone, I still want to understand the rationale behind the infrequent baby fellatio though.

Sucking the blood is described as part of the procedure in the Talmud. The Talmudic reasoning was basically that it was for hygiene. They probably weren't completely wrong, since doctors didn't sanitize their surgical knives until the late nineteenth century. The saliva might have given some protection against the unsanitized blade, but at the cost of possibly transmitting a disease from the mohel to the baby. Jewish laws are either Rabbinic in origin, or they are Divine commandments written in the bible. There is also a third category called halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai. Sucking the blood appears to be Rabbinic rather than d'oreisa or halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai, and that makes it easier to stop following in accordance with it, provided compelling enough reasons to do so. The spread of infection from the mohel was compelling enough for most Jewish communities to stop doing it. But circumcision itself would be impossible to stop, since it is explicitly commanded on the eighth day in the bible.

That's cool, thankyou for the explanation much appreciated Thumbsup
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09-10-2017, 12:26 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
So given the information garnered so far anyone sucking baby dick after the acceptance of germ theory ie the entire 20th century should be prosecuted as a felon imo
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09-10-2017, 12:28 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 12:18 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 12:16 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  Sucking the blood is described as part of the procedure in the Talmud. The Talmudic reasoning was basically that it was for hygiene. They probably weren't completely wrong, since doctors didn't sanitize their surgical knives until the late nineteenth century. The saliva might have given some protection against the unsanitized blade, but at the cost of possibly transmitting a disease from the mohel to the baby. Jewish laws are either Rabbinic in origin, or they are Divine commandments written in the bible. There is also a third category called halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai. Sucking the blood appears to be Rabbinic rather than d'oreisa or halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai, and that makes it easier to stop following in accordance with it, provided compelling enough reasons to do so. The spread of infection from the mohel was compelling enough for most Jewish communities to stop doing it. But circumcision itself would be impossible to stop, since it is explicitly commanded on the eighth day in the bible.

That's cool, thankyou for the explanation much appreciated Thumbsup

You'r welcome. I just saw your earlier post it which you remarked on my condescending tone. I apologize if my tone seemed to be condescending, because I didn't mean for it to be.
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09-10-2017, 12:36 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 12:26 PM)adey67 Wrote:  So given the information garnered so far anyone sucking baby dick after the acceptance of germ theory ie the entire 20th century should be prosecuted as a felon imo

There are many people who are working to make the practice of sucking the blood unlawful. I personally would prefer that mohels who are still doing it would stop doing it and make such a law unnecessary. But I wouldn't be opposed to there being a law prohibiting it.
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09-10-2017, 12:38 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 12:16 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:55 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Mm I must have missed that somehow but thanks for the condescending tone, I still want to understand the rationale behind the infrequent baby fellatio though.

Sucking the blood is described as part of the procedure in the Talmud. The Talmudic reasoning was basically that it was for hygiene. They probably weren't completely wrong, since doctors didn't sanitize their surgical knives until the late nineteenth century. The saliva might have given some protection against the unsanitized blade, but at the cost of possibly transmitting a disease from the mohel to the baby. Jewish laws are either Rabbinic in origin, or they are Divine commandments written in the bible. There is also a third category called halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai. Sucking the blood appears to be Rabbinic rather than d'oreisa or halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai, and that makes it easier to stop following in accordance with it, provided compelling enough reasons to do so. The spread of infection from the mohel was compelling enough for most Jewish communities to stop doing it. But circumcision itself would be impossible to stop, since it is explicitly commanded on the eighth day in the bible.

^^^ Basically this. I was working on an explanation, but Yonadav Kenyon's post sums it up well. The intention was to remove by suction any blood in the area to prevent clotting. 2,000 years ago, it was decided suctioning out the wound was the safest thing for the baby, and the logical way to do this was to suction it out orally.

It's disgusting, but it's not pedophilia. Come on, people.

The Rabbinic tradition does not specify how the wound should be suctioned, only that it should be suctioned and cleaned. Today we use sterile gauze and sponges to clean the area, and most everyone I've ever known to order a bris for their baby chooses a Rabbi who is also a medical doctor. There is a small percentage of the Jewish population that still does this orally, but enacting legislation to stop it has been wholly ineffective. The best method to stop this is through education from within the Jewish community.

You guys can stand on your heads all day long, Jewish community will not change because of anything you say, do, or demonstrate. The change must come from within.
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09-10-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 12:38 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 12:16 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  Sucking the blood is described as part of the procedure in the Talmud. The Talmudic reasoning was basically that it was for hygiene. They probably weren't completely wrong, since doctors didn't sanitize their surgical knives until the late nineteenth century. The saliva might have given some protection against the unsanitized blade, but at the cost of possibly transmitting a disease from the mohel to the baby. Jewish laws are either Rabbinic in origin, or they are Divine commandments written in the bible. There is also a third category called halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai. Sucking the blood appears to be Rabbinic rather than d'oreisa or halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai, and that makes it easier to stop following in accordance with it, provided compelling enough reasons to do so. The spread of infection from the mohel was compelling enough for most Jewish communities to stop doing it. But circumcision itself would be impossible to stop, since it is explicitly commanded on the eighth day in the bible.

^^^ Basically this. I was working on an explanation, but Yonadav Kenyon's post sums it up well. The intention was to remove by suction any blood in the area to prevent clotting. 2,000 years ago, it was decided suctioning out the wound was the safest thing for the baby, and the logical way to do this was to suction it out orally.

It's disgusting, but it's not pedophilia. Come on, people.

The Rabbinic tradition does not specify how the wound should be suctioned, only that it should be suctioned and cleaned. Today we use sterile gauze and sponges to clean the area, and most everyone I've ever known to order a bris for their baby chooses a Rabbi who is also a medical doctor. There is a small percentage of the Jewish population that still does this orally, but enacting legislation to stop it has been wholly ineffective. The best method to stop this is through education from within the Jewish community.

You guys can stand on your heads all day long, Jewish community will not change because of anything you say, do, or demonstrate. The change must come from within.

I take a rather harsh stance. We know the harm it causes, even if they the community argues otherwise. Just like FGM is illegal, so must be the habit of sucking the blood. The cops have nabbed criminals for posting stuff to facebook. The same should be for this. If it is done within the borders where it is illegal, an arrest needs to be made. And in the interest of international law, the same should be so if the people in question go elsewhere.
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09-10-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 11:29 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:03 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  I myself having been circumcised and having decided to do that to our son only a day or two after he was born, I'm going to implore my son and daughter to think about it before doing it to their sons if they have them. In my case, I don't know why it was done. In my son's case, we didn't discuss or think about it until the doctor asked us at the hospital. Really the only reason we agreed is because I had it done to me and because we had what we believed to be an understanding that it helped with hygiene and possibly reducing future infections. But as I started to look into it and realizing that it was mostly religiously driven, I came to change my mind. I now regret doing that to our son.

As far as making this a felony, that's a little ridiculous from my POV. I think education would help tremendously in slowing this practice.

The sucking of baby dick after should be the felony its unhygienic and unnecessary.

Wow, I wasn't talking about sucking baby dicks. I was talking about circumcision done in a hospital by doctors with clean instruments in a sterile environment. I might should have clarified on that one!

It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
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09-10-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 11:55 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:49 AM)Vera Wrote:  Just because you said something doesn't make it so. Actually, judging from your recent "contributions" to this place, I'd venture to say it's much the other way around. Drinking Beverage

And just because you deny that something is true, doesn't make it so. Almost all people who are opposed to circumcision are antireligious. That is a fact. Deny it all you want.

Another believer who know The Truth. What a surprise.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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09-10-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(09-10-2017 12:38 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 12:16 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  Sucking the blood is described as part of the procedure in the Talmud. The Talmudic reasoning was basically that it was for hygiene. They probably weren't completely wrong, since doctors didn't sanitize their surgical knives until the late nineteenth century. The saliva might have given some protection against the unsanitized blade, but at the cost of possibly transmitting a disease from the mohel to the baby. Jewish laws are either Rabbinic in origin, or they are Divine commandments written in the bible. There is also a third category called halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai. Sucking the blood appears to be Rabbinic rather than d'oreisa or halakha l'Moshe m'Sinai, and that makes it easier to stop following in accordance with it, provided compelling enough reasons to do so. The spread of infection from the mohel was compelling enough for most Jewish communities to stop doing it. But circumcision itself would be impossible to stop, since it is explicitly commanded on the eighth day in the bible.

^^^ Basically this. I was working on an explanation, but Yonadav Kenyon's post sums it up well. The intention was to remove by suction any blood in the area to prevent clotting. 2,000 years ago, it was decided suctioning out the wound was the safest thing for the baby, and the logical way to do this was to suction it out orally.

It's disgusting, but it's not pedophilia. Come on, people.

The Rabbinic tradition does not specify how the wound should be suctioned, only that it should be suctioned and cleaned. Today we use sterile gauze and sponges to clean the area, and most everyone I've ever known to order a bris for their baby chooses a Rabbi who is also a medical doctor. There is a small percentage of the Jewish population that still does this orally, but enacting legislation to stop it has been wholly ineffective. The best method to stop this is through education from within the Jewish community.

You guys can stand on your heads all day long, Jewish community will not change because of anything you say, do, or demonstrate. The change must come from within.

Aliza.

We are atheists. I see you continually attempt to justify insanity to us.

It won't work. Give it up.

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