male circumcision of minors should be a felony
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11-10-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 06:47 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:11 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Not really. Should we be tolerant of FGM? After all it is a religious practice. I am sure the searing pain is similar in either case it is just that it is done to boys before they have the ability to remember anything.
FGM is more drastic and as far as I know it does not have any alleged benefits. Those two shouldn't be compared; one being more horrible doesn't mean that second should be tolerated however.

Maybe it is only considered more drastic because the girls it is done to are not babies, but fully conscious and aware individuals. They remember the pain. Just because boys are too young to remember what it felt like does not mean that it didn't hurt like a bitch. We have a person a little ways up the page that had it done at nine and he knows the pain involved. Are you telling him what was done was less drastic or painful?
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11-10-2017, 07:01 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 06:47 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:11 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Not really. Should we be tolerant of FGM? After all it is a religious practice. I am sure the searing pain is similar in either case it is just that it is done to boys before they have the ability to remember anything.
FGM is more drastic and as far as I know it does not have any alleged benefits. Those two shouldn't be compared; one being more horrible doesn't mean that second should be tolerated however.

I agree 100% it should only be done for bonafide medical reasons unless an informed adult makes the decision to have it done for religious reasons and in those cases it should only be available if the person wanting it done pays for the procedure if they come from a country with a social healthcare system.
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11-10-2017, 07:12 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 06:55 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:47 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  FGM is more drastic and as far as I know it does not have any alleged benefits. Those two shouldn't be compared; one being more horrible doesn't mean that second should be tolerated however.

Maybe it is only considered more drastic because the girls it is done to are not babies, but fully conscious and aware individuals. They remember the pain. Just because boys are too young to remember what it felt like does not mean that it didn't hurt like a bitch. We have a person a little ways up the page that had it done at nine and he knows the pain involved. Are you telling him what was done was less drastic or painful?

And maybe it is considered more drastic cause, you know it is more drastic?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-10-2017, 07:27 AM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2017 07:40 AM by adey67.)
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 06:55 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:47 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  FGM is more drastic and as far as I know it does not have any alleged benefits. Those two shouldn't be compared; one being more horrible doesn't mean that second should be tolerated however.

Maybe it is only considered more drastic because the girls it is done to are not babies, but fully conscious and aware individuals. They remember the pain. Just because boys are too young to remember what it felt like does not mean that it didn't hurt like a bitch. We have a person a little ways up the page that had it done at nine and he knows the pain involved. Are you telling him what was done was less drastic or painful?

You're still hurting another human being at the time regardless of whether they remember as they grow up. So I agree with you on that point BG. Edit: I'm the kid who had it done aged 9 and mine was done under anaesthesia it hurt like mad afterwards many of the babies have no anaesthetic for the procedure so horrible at least mine was a necessary operation and I was old enough to understand why it was done.
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11-10-2017, 07:29 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 07:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:55 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Maybe it is only considered more drastic because the girls it is done to are not babies, but fully conscious and aware individuals. They remember the pain. Just because boys are too young to remember what it felt like does not mean that it didn't hurt like a bitch. We have a person a little ways up the page that had it done at nine and he knows the pain involved. Are you telling him what was done was less drastic or painful?

And maybe it is considered more drastic cause, you know it is more drastic?

I disagree. I think both are equally drastic as far as pain. With girls the effects are more drastic because it reduces or eliminates possible pleasure from sex, which is what is at the heart of both procedures. Sex is for procreation not for pleasure according to religions. Boys might start touching themselves too early and we can't have that. Girls might fuck around if they find it pleasurable and we can't have that. That is what it boils down to. Oh yeah and the laziness or unwillingness of parents. Uncut you need to clean it and parents don't want to do it and don't want to teach their boys how to. One of the common arguments is "Do you really want to do the cleaning for them when they are too young and do you really want to show them how it is done?". Both are worthy sacrifices if in the name of giving someone a choice.
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11-10-2017, 07:31 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 07:27 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:55 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Maybe it is only considered more drastic because the girls it is done to are not babies, but fully conscious and aware individuals. They remember the pain. Just because boys are too young to remember what it felt like does not mean that it didn't hurt like a bitch. We have a person a little ways up the page that had it done at nine and he knows the pain involved. Are you telling him what was done was less drastic or painful?

You're still hurting another human being at the time regardless of whether they remember as they grow up. So I agree with you on that point BG.

Thank you.
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11-10-2017, 07:35 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 07:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 06:55 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Maybe it is only considered more drastic because the girls it is done to are not babies, but fully conscious and aware individuals. They remember the pain. Just because boys are too young to remember what it felt like does not mean that it didn't hurt like a bitch. We have a person a little ways up the page that had it done at nine and he knows the pain involved. Are you telling him what was done was less drastic or painful?

And maybe it is considered more drastic cause, you know it is more drastic?

It is more drastic. FGM is clitoridectomy, which is the removal of the clitoris. In a male, this would be analogous to penile amputation, not circumcision.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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11-10-2017, 07:42 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 07:35 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 07:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  And maybe it is considered more drastic cause, you know it is more drastic?

It is more drastic. FGM is clitoridectomy, which is the removal of the clitoris. In a male, this would be analogous to penile amputation, not circumcision.

I guess you failed to see the double standard. Most people claim that nothing is really taken away from boys because they 1 don't remember it and 2 they don't know what they lost as the lost it too early to have any memory of what it was like to have had it. So, if we say did it to girls as infants say 8 days old. Would that make it ok? They are too young to have any memory of it and don't know what they are missing. If you say the answer is "no.", then maybe you can see the double standard now. If not, you are not as enlightened as you think you are. After all, FGM according to muslims does not fully take away pleasure. It is just harder to achieve.
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11-10-2017, 07:47 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
Tbh, I didn't find mine reduced sensitivity but that's not to say others might.
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11-10-2017, 07:59 AM
RE: male circumcision of minors should be a felony
(11-10-2017 07:42 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 07:35 AM)tomilay Wrote:  It is more drastic. FGM is clitoridectomy, which is the removal of the clitoris. In a male, this would be analogous to penile amputation, not circumcision.

I guess you failed to see the double standard. Most people claim that nothing is really taken away from boys because they 1 don't remember it and 2 they don't know what they lost as the lost it too early to have any memory of what it was like to have had it. So, if we say did it to girls as infants say 8 days old. Would that make it ok? They are too young to have any memory of it and don't know what they are missing. If you say the answer is "no.", then maybe you can see the double standard now. If not, you are not as enlightened as you think you are. After all, FGM according to muslims does not fully take away pleasure. It is just harder to achieve.

I am responding to the issue of severity. There is simply no comparison between FGM and male circumcision. I have already made my views known on this thread about male circumcision. It seems unnecessary in most cases, but I don't think it should be criminalized.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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