middle east and their clothes
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02-06-2015, 06:25 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
(02-06-2015 02:49 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  But don't Muslim women get incredibly angry whenever someone tries to ban the veil?

I follow a large group on facebook. Its mostly Iranian women posting selfies of themselves without the hijab. Back in the 1960's-70's Iran was very western in their dress. But then things changed, and police that will drag them off to jail for not being covered. These selfies are their "stealthy freedom". All they want is to feel the wind in their hair and the right to choose in their dress. Its quite touching to read their posts and really sinks in. https://www.facebook.com/StealthyFreedom?ref=ts&fref=ts


read their posts for a few days...

i dont see a burka as a choice, I see it as opression and slavery and abuse.

many people here will say that raising a child in America with creationist views is child abuse. I see the burka in the same light.


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02-06-2015, 06:29 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
I just want to rip this off just to see the rims.


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02-06-2015, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2015 07:55 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: middle east and their clothes
(01-06-2015 02:29 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  
(01-06-2015 09:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you feel the same way when you see black women wearing the Khimar in America? Why don't you tell them how you want to rip their clothes off, and force their men to wear it?

Do you particularly imagine that these fairly strong african woman, are wearing it because their husbands force them to?

Of course not because I know no one forces them to wear what they are wearing. But I do know that middle eastern men do force their women to wear those things. That's the difference. I no I don't know that 100% of them do force but its close. Besides you can watch their behavior and can tell tell a lot from that.

How do you distinguish between a middle eastern woman? Or a Pakastani or Indian muslim woman? How do you know the dynamics present in one middle eastern community is present in the other? Can i make a general statement about white men, white women, caucasian males to the extent that you do middle eastern people? Do you even have any middle eastern women friends? have you ever asked them how they felt about their head coverings? Clearly not.

Do you think when the Shah of Iran made the veil illegal, and had cops forcibly remove woman's hijabs, in an attempt to westernize Iran, that Iranian women looked to him as some sort of liberator of their oppression? This is not to say that some women are not forced to wear these coverings, but that there's no particular way to generalize which ones wear it against their will, and which one's don't. But one thing is clear, no one is looking for some foreign liberator to free them from wearing it.

Muslim woman wear their covering for a variety of reasons, for many as an antithesis to objectification, for some a symbol and loyalty to their faith. And there's probably very few who look on enviously at scantly dressed celebrities and such, wishing they could just rip their veils off.
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02-06-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
(02-06-2015 07:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you think when the Shah of Iran made the veil illegal, and had cops forcibly remove woman's hijabs, in an attempt to westernize Iran, that Iranian women looked to him as some sort of liberator of their oppression?

I lived in Iran from 1974 to 1978. The robe -- called a chadore in Farsi -- was commonplace wear, with perhaps half of the women seen in public wearing one, and often with the face fully covered except for a slot for the eyes. A minority of veiled women completely covered their faces.

If it was still illegal when I lived there, the police wouldn't have had the resources or manpower to prosecute all the women breaking that law.
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02-06-2015, 10:04 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
It's ALLLLLLL fucking stupid. Most religions have some sort of religious garb that they have to wear in order to belong. But women have no leadership in any of the major religions of the world. Men are in charge. Men have more freedom to change the rules of dress if needs be. Women don't, and consequently it's almost always women who are punished for not wearing it correctly.

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Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-06-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: middle east and their clothes
(02-06-2015 06:25 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 02:49 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  But don't Muslim women get incredibly angry whenever someone tries to ban the veil?

I follow a large group on facebook. Its mostly Iranian women posting selfies of themselves without the hijab. Back in the 1960's-70's Iran was very western in their dress. But then things changed, and police that will drag them off to jail for not being covered. These selfies are their "stealthy freedom". All they want is to feel the wind in their hair and the right to choose in their dress. Its quite touching to read their posts and really sinks in. https://www.facebook.com/StealthyFreedom?ref=ts&fref=ts


read their posts for a few days...

i dont see a burka as a choice, I see it as opression and slavery and abuse.

many people here will say that raising a child in America with creationist views is child abuse. I see the burka in the same light.

I feel like that is like me saying that most of Syrians support Al-Assad and then linking the pro Assad facebook page that I belong to. I am in no way denying that some people find the veil oppressive. However there are still those who do not. There is a reason that Quebecers thought that the PQ's attempt to ban religious garb in public employment was an attack on Muslim women. They saw the banning of the veil as oppression, not freedom.
Some people like the veil. Many of my Catholic friends wear headscarfs in mass and I have one who regularly wears it during the day.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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05-06-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
(02-06-2015 07:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-06-2015 02:29 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  Of course not because I know no one forces them to wear what they are wearing. But I do know that middle eastern men do force their women to wear those things. That's the difference. I no I don't know that 100% of them do force but its close. Besides you can watch their behavior and can tell tell a lot from that.

How do you distinguish between a middle eastern woman? Or a Pakastani or Indian muslim woman? How do you know the dynamics present in one middle eastern community is present in the other? Can i make a general statement about white men, white women, caucasian males to the extent that you do middle eastern people? Do you even have any middle eastern women friends? have you ever asked them how they felt about their head coverings? Clearly not.

Do you think when the Shah of Iran made the veil illegal, and had cops forcibly remove woman's hijabs, in an attempt to westernize Iran, that Iranian women looked to him as some sort of liberator of their oppression? This is not to say that some women are not forced to wear these coverings, but that there's no particular way to generalize which ones wear it against their will, and which one's don't. But one thing is clear, no one is looking for some foreign liberator to free them from wearing it.

Muslim woman wear their covering for a variety of reasons, for many as an antithesis to objectification, for some a symbol and loyalty to their faith. And there's probably very few who look on enviously at scantly dressed celebrities and such, wishing they could just rip their veils off.

While some women might choose to wear the hijab, they generally do not have the ability to choose not to. That is what is objectionable, not to mention the non-proportional punishments.

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05-06-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
(02-06-2015 12:45 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 06:25 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I follow a large group on facebook. Its mostly Iranian women posting selfies of themselves without the hijab. Back in the 1960's-70's Iran was very western in their dress. But then things changed, and police that will drag them off to jail for not being covered. These selfies are their "stealthy freedom". All they want is to feel the wind in their hair and the right to choose in their dress. Its quite touching to read their posts and really sinks in. https://www.facebook.com/StealthyFreedom?ref=ts&fref=ts


read their posts for a few days...

i dont see a burka as a choice, I see it as opression and slavery and abuse.

many people here will say that raising a child in America with creationist views is child abuse. I see the burka in the same light.

I feel like that is like me saying that most of Syrians support Al-Assad and then linking the pro Assad facebook page that I belong to. I am in no way denying that some people find the veil oppressive. However there are still those who do not. There is a reason that Quebecers thought that the PQ's attempt to ban religious garb in public employment was an attack on Muslim women. They saw the banning of the veil as oppression, not freedom.
Some people like the veil. Many of my Catholic friends wear headscarfs in mass and I have one who regularly wears it during the day.

The issue is about freedom of choice. If one wants to wear it, fine. If one doesn't, she risks death. I'm not OK with that - are you?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-06-2015, 09:07 AM
RE: middle east and their clothes
Freedom doesn't just provide the ability to do something, it also provides the ability to not do something.

Whomever controls the freedom of another is ... a slave owner.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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05-06-2015, 06:56 PM
RE: middle east and their clothes
(02-06-2015 10:04 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It's ALLLLLLL fucking stupid. Most religions have some sort of religious garb that they have to wear in order to belong. But women have no leadership in any of the major religions of the world. Men are in charge. Men have more freedom to change the rules of dress if needs be. Women don't, and consequently it's almost always women who are punished for not wearing it correctly.

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I think crazy styles aren't just limited to religion. Ugh, remember 80's hairstyles!

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