"...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
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19-01-2012, 02:41 AM
"...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Okay so another theist (facebook) friend posted this status...

Quote:Shaun Murray
Self defeating theories seem to be the way to go these days; for example most atheists believe that they are stronger intelectually because they can concieve of a world in which God does not exist and 'religion evolved' however if you look closer at this line of thinking the first humans would have been atheists and then some enlightened people conceived of a world where they weren't the ultimate power and religion was born thus making the modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man.

Then
Quote:Shaun Murray sorry for the misinformation don't mean somehow christians or muslims are more intelligent, all humans are on the same playing field i meant that an atheist cannot say he has progressed intellectually because he rejects God when in fact that idea (in a world of evolved religion) would have been the first idea and religion would have been progressive.

Any thoughts on what I should reply with to shut him down?
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19-01-2012, 02:52 AM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2012 02:59 AM by Logisch.)
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Why bother arguing on facebook. Honestly...

How are you going to "shut someone down" on facebook. Not only are you challenging them on a social networking site (in which all of their religious friends are going to flood a bunch of crap) but it isn't like you're going to make them change their minds.

I don't feel that I've somehow become a more intellectually superior being for not having God. I simply think that I find intellect easier to pursue when you're open minded enough to EVEN be open minded about religion. Religious people are told not to question their religion. Not for a moment. That's blasphemous. The fear that you're taught to have in questioning it is sinful, horrible, bad, blasphemy. So you will spend your entire time of being religious DEFENDING EVERYTHING YOU CAN when someone presents evidence and tells you otherwise.

I think of it this way - I found myself always defending my religion. Always always always. When I finally came to terms with things and took the evidence in question - other things began to make sense. "But the big bang can't be ... and this can't be... but biology must be wrong. Science is bad, it's working against my religion!" Wait a minute... wait wait wait... all these years I fought these things, I look now and go .... but.. if these things are facts... and there is evidence.. and science does make sense.. and it does want to benefit mankind... why didn't anyone TELL ME THIS STUFF????????????

They did... they tried...

I remember when I finally questioned it and converted. When someone went "OH NO! Your salvation is on the line now!" - but you know, it was a relieving feeling honestly. When I could finally go - "No... no it isn't... because I've looked through the proof and evidence and I feel absolutely confident that I was simply reading an old book of myths..."

But to actually grasp it, come to terms with it after you've actually questioned it, took a step back and accepted it... that's entirely different.

And I don't think it's going to happen by arguing with someone over facebook.

If you REALLY want to see if they're willing to listen, send them a message. Not a status update and offer to talk with them on a human level. Person to person. Eye to eye. Discuss your points like intelligent human beings. Because if someone really wants to come across as an intellectual human being, arguing will do little to nothing to prove otherwise.

Remember that part in star wars where darth vader says "Luke... I AM your father..." and luke is in denial and goes "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" - it's sort of like that when you argue with them. Except that it seems 95% of them will never listen to the rest of it, they'd rather just jump off the ledge, pretend the encounter never happened and try not to let it eat at their mind like a mind ninja.
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19-01-2012, 02:57 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
I guess you're right about the whole facebook debate/arguing - i'll let this one slide. There's no point trying to talk to this guy
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19-01-2012, 03:19 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Yeah pretty much. The caveman thing is kind of silly. When you look back and realize how primitive religion is... man made up polytheistic and monotheistic gods to create stories and explanation for everything they can't explain.

While "Ugh" the log smashing caveman was inventing the wheel... "Oog" was busy telling "Ugh" that it was a waste of time and that everything was created by a mythical skyman. Now we have a book describing why everything is awesome because of a man from the sky. Some of us still enjoy perfecting the wheel. Let Oog do his thing. The rest of us care about moving man forward while he lives in a fantasy world he can't prove and describe. I guess it's easier that way for some. Show him the wheel and he'll still try and convince you that you're stupid and that the sun revolves around us. Don't forget... the earth is still flat, so you're stupid.

Silly cavemen.
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19-01-2012, 04:06 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
This guy's entire post is one big sentence. I can't really take seriously someone who is criticising other people's intellect when he himself can't even use punctuation marks.

I hope that's not a snobbish attitude. It probably is. So I will actually respond to the content not just the way it's written:

What he's saying is basically similar to saying that because you're born an atheist, and you then learn about god when you grow up, atheism is childish and stupid and all intellectual humans will grow out of it. That's logically flawed, and it's often hard to argue with someone whose logic is fundamentally flawed.
I think you could reply, if you wanted to, with something that puts things into context and maybe makes him think:
"Religion was humanity's first attempt at explaining the world around us. The intellectuals of those days were religious. We now know these explanations are untrue and we have better explanations. We no longer need religious explanations. It's not a progress from nothing to religion to nothing again, but rather a progress from nothing to religion to science and a real understanding of the universe."

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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19-01-2012, 04:08 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Fantastic way to put it Smile
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19-01-2012, 06:28 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
I agree with Logisch's point of nothing to be gained from social network debate. He will have plenty of supporters defending his point and most or all of the people that agree with you will likely be to scared to publicly defend you. Most of my Facebook Friends are indeed religious and often write religious things and I just let it slide.

Smooshmonster captured beautifully my viewpoint and I will use his wording in future one-on-one discussions.

For the fun of it though let's play the if you wrote something what could you say game. How about "Even physical evolution has random mutations that are not beneficial and indeed can be harmful. Religion is just a mental random mutation."

.
I wasn't . . . until I was
I am . . . until I'm not
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19-01-2012, 06:36 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Who says that it's a good idea to shut him down? Why not troll his brains out? Posting this kind of crap on facebook is just asking for it.

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19-01-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Hey, Squeeker.

I think you need to be a good sport about it. He's got you cold. Two Atheist arguments, Atheism is the default position and cultural evolution (which isn't so much an Atheist position per-se, but I support it) have created a logical hole that this guy drove a truck through. I believe the word is touché.

The only issue with what he's saying is that it follows the common fallacy that evolution is headed somewhere, that is to say, that evolution is about the simple or primitive moving towards the complex or advanced. That's not true. So just because religion evolved doesn't make it progressive.

I think what the reactions illustrate is the idea of zero sum. Relax. This isn't a fight to the death. As Colbert would say, respect your worthy adversary. He made a funny. Laugh. Have a beer. Move on with your life.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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19-01-2012, 10:06 AM
RE: "...modern day atheist the intellectual equivalent of a cave man"
Yes, modern man is the intellectual equivalent of a cave man, his mind unpolluted by the insanity of religion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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