moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-10-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
The research proves that god is imagined entity, which is the result of lack of knowledge about moon between ancient people. Hundreds thousand years people were seeing moon everyday, but could not objectively explain what is it. Thus they were fantasize about this object, while making allegories from objects available around them.
First and common allegory is crescent like bull horns. That is why there are so many sacred bulls found in any king of religion.
Then sacred boats, which also appear in many beliefs, due to its crescent like shape.
Then rabbit and fish, as objects, which silhouettes people were seeing on the surface of the moon.
[Image: wHoyE9tFTb8.jpg]
[Image: V5bnYIL6kns.jpg]

So the conclusion is: All religions have same roots and they are result of people’s efforts to understand the nature of our satellite.
It means that Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Masonry, Zen, Wikka, Slavs etc. are same moon oriented people. Thus we are brothers and sisters and there is no any reason to fight with each other. If everybody in the world will understand and support this concept we can be quickly united and jump to next cyberspace era.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-10-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
Early humans would have valued the presence of the moon and the light it provides. In the millennia before electricity, fire was the only tool to provide relief from the darkness and it's effects are limited. It's not surprising that people would celebrate a full moon. People studying it's motions and cycles would be the next step. Almost certainly, however, societies formed belief systems to accommodate their observations. Some cultures took to the scientific approach, some to the religious, and some even formed entire religions around the scientific observations.

I would say that your theory could be expanded upon but it's got a good foundation. Continue building upon it. I think that there may be other contributing factors to the advent of religious belief however.

My advice as a scientist, start small. Find more evidence in these cultures supporting your hypothesis. As a molecular biologist, I do know genetics plays a role in belief, as does neural structures and pathways, as well as other processes. Gather information from various fields of study and you will have a good case

P.S. I'm not trying to be an ass hat here. As someone who has had research torn apart (figuratively speaking of course) it can be a humbling experience. Just giving you a fair warning! Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-10-2013, 05:39 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
Granted, I've not spent the amount of time studying these things as you have, Main Lion, but my observations have been that the dominant celestial figure worshiped in religions the world over has been the sun.

Not to say that the moon hasn't played quite a role in the scheme of things also, but as religions developed out of stories made up about the heavens and their relevance to our existence, the sun seems to have played a bigger role as a life giving/ruling character. I would suppose that it's because of the sun's importance and seeming control over the changing of the seasons and each year's conditions (drought or bounty).

Just curious as to why you seem to think the moon is more relevant than the sun? Are there not just as many symbols in all the world's religions giving honor to the sun? Consider

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(08-10-2013 04:27 PM)Deek Wrote:  Early humans would have valued the presence of the moon and the light it provides. In the millennia before electricity, fire was the only tool to provide relief from the darkness and it's effects are limited. It's not surprising that people would celebrate a full moon. People studying it's motions and cycles would be the next step. Almost certainly, however, societies formed belief systems to accommodate their observations. Some cultures took to the scientific approach, some to the religious, and some even formed entire religions around the scientific observations.

I would say that your theory could be expanded upon but it's got a good foundation. Continue building upon it. I think that there may be other contributing factors to the advent of religious belief however.

My advice as a scientist, start small. Find more evidence in these cultures supporting your hypothesis. As a molecular biologist, I do know genetics plays a role in belief, as does neural structures and pathways, as well as other processes. Gather information from various fields of study and you will have a good case

P.S. I'm not trying to be an ass hat here. As someone who has had research torn apart (figuratively speaking of course) it can be a humbling experience. Just giving you a fair warning! Smile
Dear Deek!
Thank you for your positive reply and professional suggestion.
I study this conception for a long time now and keep doing it all my free time. Every day I find more and more evidences in very, even some times unexpected, fields.
It will be interesting to hear you opinion as a biologist for my purpose regarding the role of the moon in the development of human brain.
I’m quoting it from essay “Bit from it or it from bit”:
“…However, the transfer of information is more of a consequence. The reason that it became possible is the design of the brain itself and methods used for storage of visual information.
The picture, especially moving one, is a huge amount of information, which needs to be quickly stored.
Assuming that for this process a brain uses pixel by pixel saving, it should be extremely energetically unfavorable process, since any modifications of still image should be recorded in the "library" of the brain within the same space for each “frame”. Such image sequences require huge space to be stored.
An alternative to this can be a vector recording - an algorithm that allows to "digitize" a picture not in a
library of pixels, but in the form of mathematical functions, archiving large volumes of data in the shortest text of the formula, which fits easily into the brain of any size.
To set any function it requires an argument - a specific input in the function, on which the output of the
function depends. It is obvious that the moon could become a very convenient argument of function for
storing information about the world. For example, if you take the argument as X = “round moon”, then you can record information about the round gray stone as a conditional function: “X of the 5cm radius”
And if the argument is Y = “a semi-circular crescent”, then, for example, information about the human mouth can be recorded as “Y of the 3 cm radius”. Having these functions in memory, you can go ahead and describe more complex objects. For example, red color is conveniently remembered by the color of the mouth, which can be confired linguistically.
[Image: rot2.jpg]
In German, the word "red" sounds like “rot”, and in Russian such phonetic structure means “mouth”.
It is interesting, that the English word “ratio” is derived from the Indo-European root *re(i)- "to reason, count, argument", directly pointing to the moon as the reason and argument of function as described above.
The English “rot” translates to “decompose”, “break down” - which has a direct bearing on what is going on in the mouth.
The dual nature of the moon shape is well demonstrated by the Latin word “rota” which means “wheel”.
The English word “rut” means “a route” that refers to a circular wheel or “bellowing” - roar that refers to the mouth.
The word “radio” refers to the transmission of sound and speech, and comes from the word directly related to the characteristic of the circle - “radius” that has in the etymology such concepts as “the beam” and “to shine”.
The word “read” refers to mouth and kicks back to the pra-root of *re(i)- "to reason, count, argument"
As you can see different variations of words of same phonetic structure (R-T) give distinct results predicted by theory. They all come to initial words, which mean round or semicircular object.
This correlation was a start point for me to investigate human language deeper and come to result connected with religion described above.

Will be nice to hear your idea about it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(08-10-2013 05:39 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Just curious as to why you seem to think the moon is more relevant than the sun? Are there not just as many symbols in all the world's religions giving honor to the sun?

As I already mentioned the study was started from the statistical analysis of human language and finding similar patterns which can prove its common roots. Religion question are just a one result of many other received.
I must admit, that once I have understood that there are such patterns and they point to something round, spherical and big I have decided that first object which can feet the explanation is the sun. I even started to prepare publication about found phenomena explaining it only as a sun related issue.
But there was one thing that could not be explained with sun. I was receiving patterns that do not have round shapes. Like boat, horns, fish etc.
Firstly, I have explained semicircular shape as a trajectory of sun which is semicircular. But one time I was in Sri Lanka and have received real insight of the correct answer. I have raised my head in the sky and what I was seeing there turned my understanding. It was the boat. Crescent in South Asia as well as other territories close to equator is not looking as usual for us Europeans C letter. It is turned 90 degrees and can be seen as a boat or horns.
Moreover, the closer you are to equator the more angle moon is turning around during one night. So you can see there all possible four states of it. So I understood that something I have found it having not only sun nature but also moon nature.
I have started to read religious books and study different religions, checking a role of moon there. And it was interesting to know that despite the fact that all ancient and modern commentators connect gods and it symbols with the sun, reading the stories with logical analysis of described issues gives understanding that in many cases this stories are allegories about one or another characteristic of the moon.
For example famous story about Moses who came in boat when he was young child.
The boat has crescent shape. Young is allegory of young moon. And MoSeS has same phonetic structure as Russian word “MeSyaS” which means crescent moon.
The etymology of name Moses is given in Bible and means “taken from the water” and it can be connected with fish which is also “taken from the water”
Or another story about Noah who was talking to god. First as you remember he was also building a boat.
[Image: kovcheg.jpg]
And second, that god said to him. When there was a rainbow in the sky, god said to Noah to remember the rainbow as a sign of god. The rainbow has recognizable semicircular shape and it is easy to explain that god wanted Noah to remind god’s shape (crescent) every time he will be seeing the rainbow. Furthermore, the rainbow is the product of rain, which again connects it with water.
[Image: raduga.png]
These only two examples of misunderstanding of many commentators of bible and other religious books.
After deeper research I understood that most of sun related allegories are in deed moon related. As moon and sun have same round shape, many commentators mistakenly count that stories are connected with sun.
If you are interested, you can give an example of sun related religion or culture and I will try to demonstrate that this relation also can be explained from moon positions.

And regarding the sun’s role in live of human. As you understand the humanity was developed in places where no cold weather occurs. Africa, then India.
For those territories sun is not a good object. It makes very hot temperature, dries the water and makes live very uncomfortable. Moon is another thing. It comes at night, making cool air and most life processes in the nature take place night time.
Also it is connected with rain. Ancient people were seeing that during rain time environment becomes dark. They have associated this darkness with darkness they see every night and with “the lord” of this darkness, an object which comes nighttime. They understood that something that makes the sun disappear is much powerful then the sun itself. And using this simple logic they understood that the moon as first god who rules the rain and the sun.
As an evidence, you can take the tradition widely spread in many cultures to make religious festivals and worships night time.
Today’s story that most religions are sun related is also the result of long-lasting political propaganda against Islam which is only religion who saved its natural roots in a form of crescent moon as a symbol.
That is why there is a sacred stone in Kaaba which is known to be the stone fallen from the sky, moon stone.
There are much more evidences and if you are really interested I can share my ideas further.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 02:14 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(09-10-2013 01:46 PM)Main Lion Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 05:39 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Just curious as to why you seem to think the moon is more relevant than the sun? Are there not just as many symbols in all the world's religions giving honor to the sun?

As I already mentioned the study was started from the statistical analysis of human language and finding similar patterns which can prove its common roots. Religion question are just a one result of many other received.
I must admit, that once I have understood that there are such patterns and they point to something round, spherical and big I have decided that first object which can feet the explanation is the sun. I even started to prepare publication about found phenomena explaining it only as a sun related issue.
But there was one thing that could not be explained with sun. I was receiving patterns that do not have round shapes. Like boat, horns, fish etc.
Firstly, I have explained semicircular shape as a trajectory of sun which is semicircular. But one time I was in Sri Lanka and have received real insight of the correct answer. I have raised my head in the sky and what I was seeing there turned my understanding. It was the boat. Crescent in South Asia as well as other territories close to equator is not looking as usual for us Europeans C letter. It is turned 90 degrees and can be seen as a boat or horns.
Moreover, the closer you are to equator the more angle moon is turning around during one night. So you can see there all possible four states of it. So I understood that something I have found it having not only sun nature but also moon nature.
I have started to read religious books and study different religions, checking a role of moon there. And it was interesting to know that despite the fact that all ancient and modern commentators connect gods and it symbols with the sun, reading the stories with logical analysis of described issues gives understanding that in many cases this stories are allegories about one or another characteristic of the moon.
For example famous story about Moses who came in boat when he was young child.
The boat has crescent shape. Young is allegory of young moon. And MoSeS has same phonetic structure as Russian word “MeSyaS” which means crescent moon.
The etymology of name Moses is given in Bible and means “taken from the water” and it can be connected with fish which is also “taken from the water”
Or another story about Noah who was talking to god. First as you remember he was also building a boat.
[Image: kovcheg.jpg]
And second, that god said to him. When there was a rainbow in the sky, god said to Noah to remember the rainbow as a sign of god. The rainbow has recognizable semicircular shape and it is easy to explain that god wanted Noah to remind god’s shape (crescent) every time he will be seeing the rainbow. Furthermore, the rainbow is the product of rain, which again connects it with water.
[Image: raduga.png]
These only two examples of misunderstanding of many commentators of bible and other religious books.
After deeper research I understood that most of sun related allegories are in deed moon related. As moon and sun have same round shape, many commentators mistakenly count that stories are connected with sun.
If you are interested, you can give an example of sun related religion or culture and I will try to demonstrate that this relation also can be explained from moon positions.

And regarding the sun’s role in live of human. As you understand the humanity was developed in places where no cold weather occurs. Africa, then India.
For those territories sun is not a good object. It makes very hot temperature, dries the water and makes live very uncomfortable. Moon is another thing. It comes at night, making cool air and most life processes in the nature take place night time.
Also it is connected with rain. Ancient people were seeing that during rain time environment becomes dark. They have associated this darkness with darkness they see every night and with “the lord” of this darkness, an object which comes nighttime. They understood that something that makes the sun disappear is much powerful then the sun itself. And using this simple logic they understood that the moon as first god who rules the rain and the sun.
As an evidence, you can take the tradition widely spread in many cultures to make religious festivals and worships night time.
Today’s story that most religions are sun related is also the result of long-lasting political propaganda against Islam which is only religion who saved its natural roots in a form of crescent moon as a symbol.
That is why there is a sacred stone in Kaaba which is known to be the stone fallen from the sky, moon stone.
There are much more evidences and if you are really interested I can share my ideas further.

Seriously, dude, the arc is a basic geometric shape in nature. You are inventing meaning where there is only banality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 02:21 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(09-10-2013 01:46 PM)Main Lion Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 05:39 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Just curious as to why you seem to think the moon is more relevant than the sun? Are there not just as many symbols in all the world's religions giving honor to the sun?

As I already mentioned the study was started from the statistical analysis of human language and finding similar patterns which can prove its common roots. Religion question are just a one result of many other received.
I must admit, that once I have understood that there are such patterns and they point to something round, spherical and big I have decided that first object which can feet the explanation is the sun. I even started to prepare publication about found phenomena explaining it only as a sun related issue.
But there was one thing that could not be explained with sun. I was receiving patterns that do not have round shapes. Like boat, horns, fish etc.
Firstly, I have explained semicircular shape as a trajectory of sun which is semicircular. But one time I was in Sri Lanka and have received real insight of the correct answer. I have raised my head in the sky and what I was seeing there turned my understanding. It was the boat. Crescent in South Asia as well as other territories close to equator is not looking as usual for us Europeans C letter. It is turned 90 degrees and can be seen as a boat or horns.
Moreover, the closer you are to equator the more angle moon is turning around during one night. So you can see there all possible four states of it. So I understood that something I have found it having not only sun nature but also moon nature.
I have started to read religious books and study different religions, checking a role of moon there. And it was interesting to know that despite the fact that all ancient and modern commentators connect gods and it symbols with the sun, reading the stories with logical analysis of described issues gives understanding that in many cases this stories are allegories about one or another characteristic of the moon.
For example famous story about Moses who came in boat when he was young child.
The boat has crescent shape. Young is allegory of young moon. And MoSeS has same phonetic structure as Russian word “MeSyaS” which means crescent moon.
The etymology of name Moses is given in Bible and means “taken from the water” and it can be connected with fish which is also “taken from the water”
Or another story about Noah who was talking to god. First as you remember he was also building a boat.
[Image: kovcheg.jpg]
And second, that god said to him. When there was a rainbow in the sky, god said to Noah to remember the rainbow as a sign of god. The rainbow has recognizable semicircular shape and it is easy to explain that god wanted Noah to remind god’s shape (crescent) every time he will be seeing the rainbow. Furthermore, the rainbow is the product of rain, which again connects it with water.
[Image: raduga.png]
These only two examples of misunderstanding of many commentators of bible and other religious books.
After deeper research I understood that most of sun related allegories are in deed moon related. As moon and sun have same round shape, many commentators mistakenly count that stories are connected with sun.
If you are interested, you can give an example of sun related religion or culture and I will try to demonstrate that this relation also can be explained from moon positions.

And regarding the sun’s role in live of human. As you understand the humanity was developed in places where no cold weather occurs. Africa, then India.
For those territories sun is not a good object. It makes very hot temperature, dries the water and makes live very uncomfortable. Moon is another thing. It comes at night, making cool air and most life processes in the nature take place night time.
Also it is connected with rain. Ancient people were seeing that during rain time environment becomes dark. They have associated this darkness with darkness they see every night and with “the lord” of this darkness, an object which comes nighttime. They understood that something that makes the sun disappear is much powerful then the sun itself. And using this simple logic they understood that the moon as first god who rules the rain and the sun.
As an evidence, you can take the tradition widely spread in many cultures to make religious festivals and worships night time.
Today’s story that most religions are sun related is also the result of long-lasting political propaganda against Islam which is only religion who saved its natural roots in a form of crescent moon as a symbol.
That is why there is a sacred stone in Kaaba which is known to be the stone fallen from the sky, moon stone.
There are much more evidences and if you are really interested I can share my ideas further.

Okay. I do think you are making a few connections here and there because you want there to be one not because there is one. Moses and the rainbow for instance. But the rest seems pretty legit.

Also, as for the sun being "not a good object" in hotter climates, gods of ancient cultures certainly weren't worshipped for their benevolence. It was fear of wrath that brought a bent knee.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 03:02 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(09-10-2013 02:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, dude, the arc is a basic geometric shape in nature. You are inventing meaning where there is only banality.

Sure, it is basic form. We use it to transfer information between us. It is basic forms of binary CODe – 0&1 which we used to program our language and way of thinking.

[Image: F9bOHcvDVOk.jpg]
(first two letters from Kannada mean 1 and 0.)

Two different states of the moon were very helpful for our development, being absolutely stable and predictable object it gave us kind of etalon, a constant to describe surrounding world by most easiest way, because the arc is a basic geometric shape in nature.

And that is why this concept became so hypertrophied in religion. Just think about,- belief in sacred horned animal was taking place in most territory of our Earth. And in most cases even traditional history connects it to the moon.
80% of crosses on Russian churches has crescent moon on top.

[Image: krest.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(09-10-2013 03:02 PM)Main Lion Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 02:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, dude, the arc is a basic geometric shape in nature. You are inventing meaning where there is only banality.

Sure, it is basic form. We use it to transfer information between us. It is basic forms of binary CODe – 0&1 which we used to program our language and way of thinking.

[Image: F9bOHcvDVOk.jpg]
(first two letters from Kannada mean 1 and 0.)

Two different states of the moon were very helpful for our development, being absolutely stable and predictable object it gave us kind of etalon, a constant to describe surrounding world by most easiest way, because the arc is a basic geometric shape in nature.

And that is why this concept became so hypertrophied in religion. Just think about,- belief in sacred horned animal was taking place in most territory of our Earth. And in most cases even traditional history connects it to the moon.
80% of crosses on Russian churches has crescent moon on top.

[Image: krest.jpg]

Fine, carry on, but I think you are trying to connect dots that just don't have connections. Certainly not all religions are moon-based.

Not every arc is the moon, not every moon phase is an arc, there are infinitely many phases of the moon, some cultures valued the moon highly, some not so much.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-10-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: moon, fish, boat, cow, rabbit, god
(08-10-2013 05:39 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Granted, I've not spent the amount of time studying these things as you have, Main Lion, but my observations have been that the dominant celestial figure worshiped in religions the world over has been the sun.

Not to say that the moon hasn't played quite a role in the scheme of things also, but as religions developed out of stories made up about the heavens and their relevance to our existence, the sun seems to have played a bigger role as a life giving/ruling character. I would suppose that it's because of the sun's importance and seeming control over the changing of the seasons and each year's conditions (drought or bounty).

Just curious as to why you seem to think the moon is more relevant than the sun? Are there not just as many symbols in all the world's religions giving honor to the sun? Consider

Actually the Arabic (from which Islam with it's crescent moon, and moon-god, which turned into Allah, in Islam), cosmology supports Main Lion. They assumed that since the moon appeared larger, occasionally, it was a more important celestial object, thus more powerful god. The sun was a lesser god, in their cosmology. Their god (Sin) was a moon god. Al-Ilah was the crescent phase.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: