my awakening from religion to spirituality
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08-06-2013, 12:06 PM
my awakening from religion to spirituality
I think I'm breaking free of the spell religion has had over me, and not just religion but all ideologies and all official mythologies. First I believe it is better to be a thinking theist than an unthinking atheist, and the best thing to be is a decent human being. Also I am hanging on to Jesus. I like the guy, and he seems pretty powerful. I don't know what to believe about the rest of the new testament Christianity, and as to the OT, what a book of lies.

What a religion, that teaches that God created the world and the world fell into sin from one man eating forbidden fruit (it could be a metaphor for sexual relations with a demon, but in any case..) and the world fell into sin and war. Now everyone is destined to go to hell for eternity, but since God loves the world he sent his only son, himself, to come and die for the world, so that he could forgive the world, or those who believe on him. Such love.

Now I should state that I had long ignored the qusetion of hell but then I studied it. I did word studies on critical words like aionions (age- abiding, translated as eternal) and torment (bastaniza, meaning touchstone) and destruction (apollumi, can also mean lostness, as in lost sheep). I learned about the metaphorical nature of semitic languages, and the symbolism of fire and water and so on. (God is a refiners fire and a launderers soap). I studied all the passages that suggested universal salvation and what the early church believed. I came to the conclusion that both hell as we understand it doesn't exist, and also that every knee will bow, every tongue shall confess and all shall be saved. I believed that 1 corinthains 13, or 15, when God becomes "all in all" takes place after the end of Revelation and the Lake of Fire, the second death. I believe this is a better way to understand scripture.

But still, what to believe? It still might be a myth and a legend, or just stories people tell each other around the campfire.. and this is important, because life is short and beliefs govern behavior and dictate quality of life.

I begin to understand the nonsense of a lot of church teaching as well as church culture- which is emasculating in many respects. Actually it is either feminine or wooden/ritualistic or else excessive in terms of chanting and speaking in tongues, depending on the denomination. Our lutherans back home are nice folk, and we are decent sheep. The catholic church makes great music with the organs in their beautiful cathedrals, and I really appreciate these things.

At the same time I begin to study the bible through the language, through interlineal bibles (greek that is, for I have not attempted to tackle hebrew) and even more powerfully I started reading bible dictionaries (highly recommended as a source of bible knowledge, above all other method or book. Each of you should perhaps acquire one- the one volume dictionary is Erdmans, and the six volume, 7000 page is called Anchor. They have them at the library here. I realized what a book of nonsense the bible is, especially the OT. I am thinking now a lot of the Table of Nations, Genesis 10 I believe, the sons of Noach, and that's where all the nations of the earth come from. I am also thinking of the phillistines, who are indo-european sea peoples, and the Hittites, who are also Indo-European brothers of mine. I am really into the Indo-Europeans now. I suspect the authors of the bible just wanted to demonize the canaanites so they could attack them, which is still the M.O. of today- Saddam, Assad, Gaddafi, Hitler. The press always wants to demonize the target and works itself into a frenzy. Even if these people aren't perfect, they pose no threat to the attacking nations. Anyway so it inspires me to question and look into the truth of what was. Now I am more interested in the Canaanite religions and the so called abominable fertility cults. If anything in the world today we have a sterility cult in power. True the world is highly populated if not over-populated, but not by european people around the world. Here we have sterility culture of abortion, female career planning, male playboy, and general selfishness or career mindedness. I am thinking we need to become more fertility minded. By breaking free of emotional barriers and taboos, I am able to rationally think about the other side of things. First you must crack the emotional shells and debunk or demystify the mythology.

Lately I am feeling my lust and sex drive. I really believe it powers the mind, and helps it reach new heights. I see masturbation as such a waste and tragedy for human potential. I described my experience and thoughts to one lady friend, and she said it was like tantra. I guess I'm a natural tantric. I read about tantra and i agree. by the way, those texts were written in indo-european languages I think. Certainly the Rig Veda and Mahabharata was. I thought about how religion quashes this, and makes me feel guilty. It really does. It places an oppressive morality on me and when not on me than on others, and it distracts me, when I realize I need to concentrate my forces. For me, life purpose is my new religion. They might call that Dharma. Jeez, I sound like a hindi now but I'm not, but I really believe in the purpose driven life and I know my purposes.

Right now I am trying to harness my lust to break free in the mind. I don't meant to say I'm abstaining from love making. In fact I'm trying to get the confidence and figure out how to meet women in public and bring them back to my place and show them a good time in short amounts of time. I want to experience love and sex. I don't even consider it a sex drive anymore, but a life drive and a part of the self that is seeking human connection and touch, which I have been deprived of lately. really this is like a spiritual war inside of one. I looked up Platonic Love in wikipedia to figure out what that nonsense was all about, chastity, etc, and it turns out it was not actually nonsense and Plato's conception was nothing like how the word is used today, at least how I understood it, but quite like Tantra.

Now I see how the bible is a book of crazy lies and stories of a foreign culture, a semitic culture, that we have adopted, although we still transform it in practice after our fashions- in terms of cathedrals and baroque and crusades and so on. I also see how rich the classics of Greek and Rome were or may be. I really want to get into these. Why are these not studied anymore? Why are they not understood?

Who can understand this but someone with time and interest and who isn't deadened by television, that satanic contraption, and masturbation- because I don't know if I believe in hell but I believe in prison. The reason most of us don't try to escape is because we are fairly comfortable in it, and we don't see we are in it. There are fetters of our minds, such as misdirected lust and anger and ignorance and fuzzy thinking.

The bible is a foreign book, but for the gospels which I really love. I love his suicide mission. We are all going to die anyway, we are all on a death trip. I love Jesus' aphorisms and quotes- "those who love their love will lose it, those who lose their life will gain it". Who was this man, this Nazarene? I am sure if he was like they say he was, I would have followed him. At least I would have admired him. I hope that's so. Maybe I would have not had the guts, but I admire him now, as it is written.

But I am ever more astounded how little people see. When one awakens, one wonders why others don't see. One forgets how little one knew oneself just a few days ago. One wants to tell the world. I see how opposite in character the OT is from the New. One preaches universalism, the other tribal ethnic unity, if not superiority or exclusiveness. Yahweh is very much a tribal god and remains so to this day to many in Judaism, but God of the new testament is Universal. The OT teaches eye for an eye, tooth for tooth and the new teaches almost unlimited mercy and forgiveness. The OT teaches attack and conquer, the new teaches pacifism. The OT is a great book for military success. If the spirit world exists, then the new is a great book for spiritual conquest, but you won't own the world. It acknowledges that in the book of James- he who loves the world hates the spirit or something like that.

Today I was really getting closer to abandoning all parts of Christianity, but there is Jesus and there are some things I like. I never thought it did much harm, and I am afraid of the pure hedonistic pursuit of pleasure. That also is a trap. I simply want to avoid all traps, I want to be conservative in my thinking and wait until I have proof of various things one way or the other. Right now though I am fighting an inner battle. I am trying to get power of assertiveness with attractive women. I feel so guilty sometimes for approaching them, as if I must be disturbing one of them. In fact I sometimes feel the unholy trinity of Shame, Guilt and Fear. I don't think it has to do with religion belief alone, though that helped it. I think it starts with a negative visualization of an interaction going wrong, and then leads to fear, and then leads to the mind looking for a "reason" why she is not worth talking to, or something to that effect. This battle is what I'm preoccupied with these days. I want some love. At least I want the freedom to pursue love without internal blocks in my mind. I will continue to prosecute my other agendas and life purposes. I am studying the political arts, and arts of statesmanship and public service, and history. I want to be someone who theoretically could take hold of the reigns of power- not that I'm seeking it. I love my people, and I want to protect them. I want to advance civilization. I want to help usher in another high civilization, and so I'm studying the old civilizations to learn from them, all the way back from Sumer and Egypt through to Greece and Rome, including the minoans and the Tocharians and the Indo-Aryans and everyone who was everything. Civilizations fall, if I can sum it up, when the people stop breeding, or when dysgenic forces act upon them. I am worried today because we are all global, that dysgenic forces will be acting on the whole planet, and there won't be anyone left to create another civilization. Who knows, maybe a pocket will survive, in Iceland say, or Austria, or Finland.
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08-06-2013, 12:29 PM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 12:48 PM by Anjele.)
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
I thought the whole Christian thing was 'all or nothing' if you were really sure about your belief.

It kind of looks like you want to pick and choose and create your own version of Christianity...

Are you really Egor? Consider

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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08-06-2013, 12:34 PM
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
I won't go into your asides on the state of the world, abortion, etc. Probably fodder for several other threads there. Instead, I'll make the following suggestions:

For seeking truth:
  • Ask by what standard you are determining what you believe and what you don't. Is it because you like the sound of it? Because it is consistent with the other things you believe? Because it plays to your ego? What?
  • Ask if this is a good standard. Does it actually have a connection or basis in whether something is true? If what you currently believe is false, will it lead you to a better understanding?
  • I recommend something akin to the scientific method. Identify your view of the world, and mercilessly test it by any (ethical) means available. If you're right your worldview will be no worse for wear, and if you were wrong, the discovery that you're wrong will be your next step to finding the truth.

Regarding Jesus:
  • As a literary figure, there is much to admire (and some not to) about Jesus. The willingness to suffer and sacrifice for others. But simple literary power does not equate to truth, else Frodo and Samwise would be real people.
  • As a teacher of morals, there is much to admire (and some to disdain) about Jesus. IMO, he's at his best when talking about how to treat others. Refrain from judgement, practice kindness, etc. Less so, when talking about spiritual stuff. But again, teaching sometimes-good morals is not a sign a character in a book actually existed, else the world would be populated by Aesop's talking animals.
  • As a miracle worker, the lack of contemporary accounts OUTSIDE of the Bible of the miracles in question suggests that there were few, if any, miracles, and that they passed unremarked by those outside of the cult.
  • I suggest you focus on what's of immediate importance; not whether Jesus existed or had whatever powers or whatever spiritual significance, but the question of which (if any) of the teachings are important to you and how they inform the way you live your life.

More I could say, but I'll leave it at that.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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08-06-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
I was gonna say "that ain't awake," but I have a certain faith in temporal geometry, so...

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08-06-2013, 03:17 PM
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
I am not sure what you are getting at with the "culture of female career planning" (like it's a bad thing). Sounds like the Mississippi legislature and the Republican Party thinking we need to become "more fertility minded." I and the other women here could say a lot more, but in the interest of civility, I will refrain.
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08-06-2013, 03:45 PM
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
I think it is far more logical and consistent to see God sending everyone to heaven and sending no one to hell, but what then would be the purpose of hell? You didn't say and nothing seems to be implied. Many liberal/moderate Christians see hell as a mere "separation from God", whatever that could possibly mean in the context of an omnipresent God.

Masturbation is very useful (and fun!). Guys don't have periods -- we have wet dreams to clean out the old, dead sperm. Masturbation prevents that. Given those two choices, I'd pick spanking the monkey any day.

Tantra isn't totally crap, but the spiritual aspect of it is. There's no evidence to support anyone having a "third eye" or dancing on other planes of existence, but the exercises that they teach you about controlling your orgasms and having them internally are based on good science.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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08-06-2013, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 05:41 PM by amyb.)
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
Quote:. If anything in the world today we have a sterility cult in power. True the world is highly populated if not over-populated, but not by european people around the world. Here we have sterility culture of abortion, female career planning, male playboy, and general selfishness or career mindedness.
So you think the world needs more white people? Why exactly does it matter?

I also don't see what the problem is with women working or recreational sex and masturbation. In fact, I'm quite happy that birth control and abortion exist, to keep people who don't want kids from having unwanted kids. Why all this emphasis on quantity of lives rather than quality of life? Some women think there is more to life than just being a baby machine (no offense to those with kids, just saying that's not everyone's #1 priority).

Quote:I see masturbation as such a waste and tragedy for human potential.
Is it a waste if a black person does it? What about an Asian? You said you only want whites to reproduce more and that's why I ask. You didn't specifically say you want nonwhites to reproduce less, but that's how I read it: that you think there are too many nonwhite people and are afraid of that; as if babymaking is some kind of contest and you think the "europeans" are losing.

Additionally, I'd say your idea of things being 'emasculating" and "feminine" seems to show you view everything "feminine" as bad and/or inferior, and I'm not sure a lot of people here (esp. women) would agree with that. I would consider your views of gender roles as being a bit backward and outdated.

Quote:If anything in the world today we have a sterility cult in power.
Allowing women control over whether or not they want to bear children and when is a far cry from a "sterility cult."

ETA: If your whole OP was intended as satire, I apologize for the above. I was interpreting it as serious.

Starcrash Wrote:Masturbation is very useful (and fun!). Guys don't have periods -- we have wet dreams to clean out the old, dead sperm. Masturbation prevents that. Given those two choices, I'd pick spanking the monkey any day.
And it's not just for men! I wonder if OP considers women masturbating to also be tragic. Lol.
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08-06-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
So I take it that I Touch Myself by the Divinyls (from the early 1990s) is not on the OP's ITunes or Spotify?
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08-06-2013, 04:09 PM
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
To those who have responded harshly to the OP, I think you all have valid points however I have seen people in transition before and the OP definitely qualifies as such. The way I read his post he is still in that scary freefall where he is now questioning everything he has based his life around. Lets give this one a little more time to get his thoughts in order before we form the Lynch squad for his misogynistic leanings.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

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08-06-2013, 04:14 PM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 04:17 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: my awakening from religion to spirituality
(08-06-2013 12:06 PM)viking Wrote:  I suspect the authors of the bible just wanted to demonize the canaanites so they could attack them, which is still the M.O. of today- Saddam, Assad, Gaddafi, Hitler. The press always wants to demonize the target and works itself into a frenzy. Even if these people aren't perfect, they pose no threat to the attacking nations.

I don't really understand Hitler being thrown into that list -- since his goal was to conquer all of Europe and exterminate the Jewish populations, and gypsies, mentally deficient, homosexual, and anyone else who didn't fit into his perfect [aryan] race box.

Are you saying that we had no right to become involved with that because we didn't have a dog in that fight?


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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