national communist
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22-09-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: national communist
(22-09-2015 07:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  Thanks to Einstein we have nuclear weapons.
Yes, we have nuclear weapon. Thanks to Einstein we have more knowledge about this world(more truth). Thanks to Einstein we progress by developing something new.
But thanks to Marx we have utopia or lie and the USSR. His ideas are not true because they are for ideal perfect people. There is no such thing as ideal perfect people.
His ideas are fantasy for naïve people.
Einstein helped us to discover more truth.

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22-09-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: national communist
(22-09-2015 09:26 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 07:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  Thanks to Einstein we have nuclear weapons.
Yes, we have nuclear weapon. Thanks to Einstein we have more knowledge about this world(more truth). Thanks to Einstein we progress by developing something new.
But thanks to Marx we have utopia or lie and the USSR. His ideas are not true because they are for ideal perfect people. There is no such thing as ideal perfect people.
His ideas are fantasy for naïve people.
Einstein helped us to discover more truth.

In that case Marx also helped us discover more truth about humanity and society in ways that they function. Even if it was discovered via negative means.

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22-09-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: national communist
Einstein's idea(discovery) works. because it is true.
Marx's idea does NOT work and never will. because it is a lie for naïve people

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22-09-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: national communist
(22-09-2015 09:28 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  In that case Marx also helped us discover more truth about humanity and society in ways that they function.
example, please?
what more did he tell us about humanity than we already knew?

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22-09-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: national communist
(22-09-2015 09:30 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:28 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  In that case Marx also helped us discover more truth about humanity and society in ways that they function.
example, please?
what more did he tell us about humanity than we already knew?

Now you've found yourself actually asking well formed questions and thinking something out well rationally. That's a good step.

You could make a case for and against this I suppose. That's part of the fluctuation of Social movements & political structures. There isn't a "truth" to any of them and there isn't likely to ever be one.

Though before Marx the experimentation and implications of how a more communicably society structure could go in modern societies was unknown. The formulation and ideals that were flawed with feudalism & how people in a democracy or communal system would act were unknowns that were further explored and discovered via his influences.

You could say all that was known, well in an un-understood context sure. Just like people understood rewarding & conditioning via just doing it before Pavlov formulated it structurally.

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22-09-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: national communist
(22-09-2015 09:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Though before Marx the experimentation and implications of how a more communicably society structure could go in modern societies was unknown. The formulation and ideals that were flawed with feudalism & how people in a democracy or communal system would act were unknowns that were further explored and discovered via his influences.

You could say all that was known, well in an un-understood context sure. Just like people understood rewarding & conditioning via just doing it before Pavlov formulated it structurally.

could you please be more specific? few examples, in your opinion what we didn't know. thanks.
if I ask too much, it's OK do not answer.

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22-09-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: national communist
ClydelLee, I actually want to agree with you that there is some truth in his ideas.

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22-09-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: national communist
(22-09-2015 09:50 AM)Alla Wrote:  ClydelLee, I actually want to agree with you that there is some truth in his ideas.

I didn't say there is "truth" in his ideas, I said that we learned from his ideas. That doesn't mean there is "truth" in them. If you want, you can think of it like learning from failure. That we learned some things that ring true for human interaction and societal action.

Was modern society on large scales unable to work in a commune like ancient humanity type existing form? It worked in the past, it worked in small unified groups, but did we know it was impossible to work in large scale communities? Had it been presented in a manner and tested before Marx? Not really.

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23-09-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: national communist
(19-09-2015 08:13 PM)viking Wrote:  I just decided to become politically correct. I'm declaring myself a communist.

I'm a communist. I'm a national communist. Not a part of the comintern.

You might say that violates basic tenets about marxism. Sure. I'm not marxist and not fanatical or religious or extremist about my views like bolshevik extremists and red-wing terrorists. I can have solidarity with the workers of other nations, and wish them them the best. But, my version of communism means each nation takes care of their people and folk. Immigration is therefore limited and checked, and controlled. Not to hate on or repress other people. That's the wrong-minded view. In sooth it's to preserve and protect and benefit the folk. Now if they are doing really well, really really really well and others neighbors not so, and they could use a hand, help can, could and should be proferred, but not help which affects future genetic stock of either or both nations. We have a debt to our ancestors and potential descendants and grandchildren. That's national communism in a nutshell.

I know it's not completely politically correct of me, but y'all will have to accept this fact. At least I'm a left-winger now Smile

Everything we feared would happen under communism- that we would lose our houses, our jobs, and savings and be forced to work long hours for small amounts of money- is exactly what happened under capitalism. The problem isn't the tenant or -ism. Think about it. No matter what the group stands for there are always some that make it worse. Or what society deems as worst if you will.
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23-09-2015, 09:13 PM
RE: national communist
(20-09-2015 05:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Having said that, the serfdom was outdated and needed to change. Revolution was what was chosen. The system set up in its place was quite simply, a failure. As history has shown. Look at what became of Trosky. It was never going to work. Look at the great famine in China.

I'm not particularly familiar with Marx's work so it may just be my ignorance, but I'm not seeing the connection between serfdom and revolution.

If we're running on the Russian Revolution (first or second bears some specification I think), than Serfdom is almost entirely irrelevant, given that the system had been abolished in 1861, a long while before the explosion of revolutionary fervour, and if I recall correctly, the revolutions were won by the working class (as opposed to the largely ineffectual peasants) and superior military action, respectively.

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