need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
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02-07-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
(02-07-2013 08:56 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  [Image: tumblr_m6l84lYTR11qdqya3o1_500.jpg]

This is their god. The one who they believe can do whatever it wants.

Ask them each question

Would you be in a relationship with someone who said
"You are nothing without me"
"If you even think about leaving me, I'll make your life a living hell"
"You're disgusting. You don't even deserve me"
"You'll never find anyone as good as me"
"You brought this on yourself"
"I know best"
"You're a terrible person and you need me to be better"
"You're not worthy of my love"
"I'm only doing this because I love you"
"Don't listen to anyone who doesn't understand what we have"

Then ask "What would you call someone who was in this kind of abusive relationship ?"

Lastly ask the following

"Do you feel like You are nothing without god ?"
"What does god say he will do to your soul if you leave him ?"
"Do you feel like a filthy sinner and you don't deserve god's love ?"
"Do you think anyone can be as good as god ?"
"When you feel that god is punishing you, do you often think that you brought it on yourself."
"Does god know best ?"
"Do you consider yourself born into sin and you need god to be better ?"
"Do you think you are worthy of god's love ?"
"Does god put obstacles in your life, often causing you hardship & pain because he loves you ?"
"Is your relationship with god something that outsiders just can't understand ?"

I have used this augment with some effect, although usually get told i Must have been in an abusive marriage and hate authority figures.....

I want for myself what I want for every women, absolute equality. Agnes Macphail
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02-07-2013, 01:03 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
Quote:Gods, if they are infinite, (eternal), cannot "decide" to do something. An action "in time" refutes their timeless nature, and becomes a point against which "eternal" (timelessness) can be measured. It is devoid of any meaningful linguistic content.

Unless, of course, such God made the universe and therefore, what we call linear time, and had foreordained/pre-decided choices before creation was enacted. Of course.

Yet, BB believes he has no free will. Though he will live forever, he likewise makes decisions that are actions in time... how 'bout that?
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02-07-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
(02-07-2013 10:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Hi
I enjoy debating christians, and mostly manage ok..but there is one argument I just dont know how to answer. it goes something like this:
God can do what ever he likes (in relation to the geneocide in the OT mainly) because we are his creation. He made us, its up to him if we live or die, So what if god decides to send someone to kill you, its up to him.

I never know quite how to answer this. Any one ever come across this and how do you usually respond?

When I'm presented with this:

1. It's not a genocide. The peoples of Canaan had weapons, chariots, fortified cities, even giants. This was a war.

2. The people confronted by Israel further were familir with the Egyptian plagues and miracles and the military successes of the Jews in the desert. They had opportunities (numerous ones over decades) to worship Jehovah and assimilate peaceably into Israel.

3. God is really big and powerful. You have free will. You need not "follow the whims of God". Heaven is a choice and so is Hell. Choose.

1. Giants? Anyway, does that excuse joshuas wholescale slaughter of women and children? No, thats genocide , not war. How many times did god say kill everyone?
2 the people confronted by israel were living in their land, israel were the invaders. So you think they should have just given up their own identity, why? Why Should they do that? Do you also approve of the invasion of say america, and all americans having to worship another god, the god of the invaders?
3. So might is right. I freely choose not hell. There, now your god knows.

I want for myself what I want for every women, absolute equality. Agnes Macphail
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02-07-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
(02-07-2013 01:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Gods, if they are infinite, (eternal), cannot "decide" to do something. An action "in time" refutes their timeless nature, and becomes a point against which "eternal" (timelessness) can be measured. It is devoid of any meaningful linguistic content.

Unless, of course, such God made the universe and therefore, what we call linear time, and had foreordained/pre-decided choices before creation was enacted. Of course.

Yet, BB believes he has no free will. Though he will live forever, he likewise makes decisions that are actions in time... how 'bout that?

He's still a jerk for killing innocent women and children. How bout that?
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02-07-2013, 03:43 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
But they weren't innocent! They were sinners! And all sinners no matter how small the sin deserve DEATH so really, they got off lightly...

Religious logic ™: Distorting justice, truth, the search for happiness and basically anything connected to uplifting humanity since 5000 BC.
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02-07-2013, 05:11 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
Quote:I never know quite how to answer this. Any one ever come across this and how do you usually respond?

Usually something like "so, by your own admission you worship a dick."

(Anyone who is that stupid deserves no consideration anyway.)
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02-07-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
(02-07-2013 10:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  When I'm presented with this:

1. It's not a genocide. The peoples of Canaan had weapons, chariots, fortified cities, even giants. This was a war.

Dictionary.com Wrote:genocide
gen·o·cide [jen-uh-sahyd]
noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Whether successful or not, and I seem to remember the bibal saying they attempts were successful, the wars to which you refer are still, at the very least, attempted genocide. Have you ever heard the phrase "war of extermination"?

(02-07-2013 10:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  2. The people confronted by Israel further were familir with the Egyptian plagues and miracles and the military successes of the Jews in the desert. They had opportunities (numerous ones over decades) to worship Jehovah and assimilate peaceably into Israel.

Were they really?
The plagues are suspicious enough on this end. They would have left Egypt totally destroyed as a nation; no leader, no army, little money or possessions of the people 'cause the Jews took it when they left in the chaos, (like opportunistic looters after an Earthquake) and every family in the nation had simultaneously been struck the loss of their first heir, if they had one, the marine life of the Nile would be all dead, as with the livestock, and the crops had all been devoured by locus hungry and numerous now that there were no frogs to keep their numbers down with not enough food to go around, leading to mass starvation...

Putting aside the miraculous re-stabilization and reformation to Egypt's former position of power in a period of seemingly years, perhaps it is the power of fiction that allows such a disaster to go unnoticed by the nations around, which would have no doubt leapt upon the anarchical state of Egypt in it's time of total inability to defend itself from invasion and annexation? Perhaps this did not occur as the events did not occur as described, as all told, they would have doubtless destroyed Egypt in totality as described above. After all, how could this deity-induced cataclysm occur and not be noticed or detailed by the kingdoms surrounding, or not by Egypt itself at the least?

Not to mention the supposed wars which the Jews fought and won for seemingly no reason past an old man who heard voices in his head and frequently went into fits of schizophrenic rage, wars which, again did not apparently catch the ears of the local Kings and Emperors (were there any at the time).

Last I read, the Jews were extremely hateful and distrusting of people born outside Jewish bloodlines, anyway. And throughout the Bibal, they seem more inclined not to cultural assimilation and education of their captured nations peoples, but rather to merciless, wrathful domination and subjugation of their unfortunate hostages which could look forward only to death or brutal slavery for the very crime of being brought up with the wrong deities.

(02-07-2013 10:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  3. God is really big and powerful. You have free will. You need not "follow the whims of God". Heaven is a choice and so is Hell. Choose.

Is it really a choice? Is it truly a choice made of ones own will if they decide when held hostage? Threatened with life unending, bound of torture eternal? A decision made under extreme duress is negligible, and forcing a person into a contract under duress is not only criminal, but cowardly. That is a cowardly way to act. Your god is not only evil, but It is also a coward of the highest caliber. The worst kind of pathetic. Instead of winning people over with in-person displays of god-like power, or sending knowledge unto the ancients which would have benefited from it (where's the knowledge of say, penicillin, in the Bibal I ask!) it gives non-believers a choice between "Love me and praise me forever and ever, even after your death, serve me at my throne!" or "Oh, you... didn't choose me? You refuse ME?! You never heard of me? Brought up believing something else?! You will burn. Burn forever and ever. The only time of respite shall be when I reform your ashes and once more stoke the flames as punishment for your crimes unforgivable."

It threatens with Hell and lures with Heaven and when It does not get exactly as It wanted (which makes no sense as, if it wanted something, why would it not merely have made it so to begin with?), god throws a temper-tantrum like the spoilt brat turned bully it is.

The entire concept is comically silly, PJ. Not only do I deny and defy your god, I laugh at it. At it's total incompetence, at it's banality, at it's apparent fear of not being loved, at it's obsessive sexual compulsion (it must have something there, considering how obsessive it is in the Bibal regarding genitalia, particularly that of males. Repressed homosexual methinks.), I laugh at just how very petty your god is and how vain it is. And most of all; I laugh that you think it could ever hold fears for me with your threats of hell and righteous damnation.

However, I also weep because of it. It has people like you seemingly convinced of it and has been so for thousands of years. It has been a tool for the clergy and opportunists for millennia gone causing untold amounts of misery, division and hatred.

I thus end my post here and bid any and all readers whom slogged through my writing, a good day and thanks for reading, if you did. Thumbsup

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02-07-2013, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2013 09:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
(02-07-2013 01:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Gods, if they are infinite, (eternal), cannot "decide" to do something. An action "in time" refutes their timeless nature, and becomes a point against which "eternal" (timelessness) can be measured. It is devoid of any meaningful linguistic content.

Unless, of course, such God made the universe and therefore, what we call linear time, and had foreordained/pre-decided choices before creation was enacted. Of course.

Yet, BB believes he has no free will. Though he will live forever, he likewise makes decisions that are actions in time... how 'bout that?

How many lies have you told about me today JebusTrollJoke ? 3 ? 4 ?
Did you ask your Jebus to forgive you for bearing false witness ?
I never said I was going to live forever. Unlike you, I can accept my mortality.

The fact that decisions are made in time has absolutely no correlation whatsoever to a free will debate, but since you are the stupidest person on this board, I won't bother to explain what that even means. I can PROVE you have no "free will" by PET scan, MRI scan and CT scan. You on the other hand have nothing, as usual.

Since you are an all-time fool, you can't see that saying "before" time, is a meaningless statement, hilarious, even a 5th grader gets why, AND your argument about the god, is what is called Special Pleading, (but THAT's WAY beyond you, so I won't even link you to a reference for it).

"had foreordained/pre-decided choices before creation was enacted"
How's THAT for the TTA Stupid Statement of the day ? Creation included spacetime, doltish one. There was no "before" time was created. That is found in high school logic. Now I'm wondering if you even do have that GED.

Maybe we could start a Summer Camp for *Challenged Believers*, and teach Logic 101.
(I assume you have some fossils of the Canaanite giants, SexuallyPleasingJebusTroll, now that you are suddenly into "evidence").

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02-07-2013, 05:49 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
(02-07-2013 01:57 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  
(02-07-2013 01:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Unless, of course, such God made the universe and therefore, what we call linear time, and had foreordained/pre-decided choices before creation was enacted. Of course.

Yet, BB believes he has no free will. Though he will live forever, he likewise makes decisions that are actions in time... how 'bout that?

He's still a jerk giant, bleeding, scum-sucking, motherfucking asshole for killing innocent women and children. How bout that?

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02-07-2013, 06:32 PM
RE: need some advice on how to answer a christian argument
Christians would only answer you with this, "God's thinkig is different from human thinking. No matter how hard we try to understand his ways, we cannot comprehend it because it's beyond our capabilities. Ergo, we must not question God because he is a being too high. We are low creatures."

If they answer us with this, it's difficult to argue with them because they're stucked with this program in their mind that we cannot really understand him and his ways because he is a supernatural being. We are mere humans. Sometimes I end up speechless after they bring up something like that. How would you respond to this answer?
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