never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
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22-08-2014, 06:37 AM
never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
As I stumbled over this story on CNN, I read it with absolute disgust. Children depend on their parents to keep them safe. How can any parent, regardless of the delusion you purport to believe, give your daughters to a man who calls himself the embodiment of christ so he can rape them for 9 years straight? Then when they find out he has been raping them, still support this piece of shit? I wish I could find this guy and give him a slow death with a large blunt object. I also wish I could find their parents so I could backhand them across the room....damn this stuff makes me mad...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/06/u...c2#barnard

As a pastor, Victor Barnard inspired his congregants with his charisma and apparent devotion to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

"I had never met anybody that I thought loved the word of God as much as Victor Barnard did," said Ruth Johnson, a former member of Barnard's River Road Fellowship.

"He was a pastor; he basically took personal care in people, invested into them, and tried to bring the best out of you," said David Larsen, a former leader of the River Road Fellowship, which consisted of about 10 to 15 members.

Larsen said he helped Barnard set up a so-called "shepherd's camp" in the mid-1990s in Pine County, Minnesota, to help bring more people into the church. Several of his congregants, including Johnson, moved to the rural area about 100 miles north of Minneapolis to be a part of the camp.

"We sold our homes and the funds went into renovation and things that needed to be rehabbed," Johnson said. Some congregants who had experience in construction and electrical work helped set up the camp, she said.

Pine County Sheriff Robin Cole said the congregation "kept to themselves."

Barnard also traveled across the country trying to recruit new members into his fellowship, including Linsday Tornambe's parents in Harleysville, Pennsylvania, outside Philadelphia.

"Victor Barnard came and visited my parents when I was 9. … He gave my parents some of his books and teachings that he had done," Tornambe said. "My parents started making trips out to Minnesota and they were sending money to Victor."

Eventually, Tornambe said her parents packed up the family and moved to Minnesota to join the congregation.

In June of 2000, the charismatic religious leader allegedly convinced some members of his congregation to hand over their firstborn daughters to live with him in the secluded campsite.

"Victor Barnard did a teaching. He said that all the first-born children were supposed to be sacrificed to God," Tornambe said. "And he listed off 10 girls' names."

Linsday Tornambe's name was called and her parents allowed their 13-year-old daughter to join the group of girls at the camp, called "The Maidens," under Barnard's supervision. She and other congregants said the girls got up early, sewed, cooked, and cleaned for Barnard. "Everything that a wife would do, they did for him," said Johnson.

"He taught that in the Bible, the church was the bride of Christ and because he was Christ in the flesh, the church was supposed to be married to him," Tornambe said. "At that time I didn't really understand the fullness of what it meant."

About a month after her parents had dropped her off at the camp, Tornambe said Barnard started having sex with her and warned her not to tell anyone.

"Victor told me that if I told anyone, I would receive damnation from God," she said. Then she later learned he was allegedly having sexual relations with other girls as well as some of the married women at the camp.

Police first became aware of Barnard in late 2009 and 2010 when some men from the congregation alleged that he was sexually abusing their wives, according to Sheriff Cole.

"There was a rumor that there was a group of young girls that were these maidens and that something may be going on," Cole said. "But no one was coming forward saying 'I saw it, I know exactly what happened.' And we certainly had no victims at that time coming forward saying; 'I'm making an allegation that he sexually abused me.' "

Around that time, Barnard addressed his congregation, which was starting to fall apart.

"Victor had told us that there were people speaking evil of him in the church and it was time for him to leave Minnesota," Tornambe said. "So basically he was going into hiding. He took a bunch of the believers with him and they eventually ended up in Spokane, Washington. Some of the believers moved to Wisconsin."

After that, Tornambe decided to tell her aunt and uncle in Minnesota about Barnard.

"They asked me if I knew what Victor had done was a crime. That he had raped me. It kind of hit me all of a sudden how much of my life had been stolen from me," Tornambe said.

In 2012, she told police investigators that Barnard had sexually assaulted her one to three times a month from age 13 until she left in 2010 at age 22. A short time later, another female from the congregation came forward with similar allegations.

In April 2014, prosecutors charged Barnard with 59 counts of criminal sexual conduct with the two young girls while they were members of his church, and a nationwide manhunt ensued.

Just this month, Washington State Patrol reported a credible tip that Barnard was in Raymond – a coastal town about two hours outside Seattle – on August 13. They believe Barnard may have been in the area for at least a week. Previously, he's been spotted in the Spokane, Washington, area. Victor Barnard is athletic and has played football and hockey in the past. He's been known to ride a motorcycle.

Tornambe, now in her late 20s and expecting her first child, still has nightmares about her experience in Minnesota. She severed her relationship with her mother and sisters because they still support Barnard even after she told them what he had done to her.

"I still have two sisters and my mom out in Washington State still believing this man who raped me when I was 13," Tornambe said. "My heart is to help them and for them to get out. I mean at this point I feel like they're brainwashed."

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-08-2014, 06:43 AM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
Well the root of religion is the same root that can cause one to see something that really isn't there, like a shape in the clouds or a butterfly in an ink blot. Our species evolved to seek patterns, and combine that with our evolutionary group survival we can group around completely false beliefs. The ancient Egyptians were successful for 3,000 years falsely believing in their polytheistic gods.

Dawkins in "The God Delusion" describes our naturally flawed perceptions in his book akin to "the moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight".

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22-08-2014, 06:49 AM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
(22-08-2014 06:43 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Well the root of religion is the same root that can cause one to see something that really isn't there, like a shape in the clouds or a butterfly in an ink blot. Our species evolved to seek patterns, and combine that with our evolutionary group survival we can group around completely false beliefs. The ancient Egyptians were successful for 3,000 years falsely believing in their polytheistic gods.

Dawkins in "The God Delusion" describes our naturally flawed perceptions in his book akin to "the moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight".

Oh I agree, I have a pretty good understanding of human gullibility, sense of awe and how easy it is to sell delusion......but you would think somewhere in the back of your brain a flag would go off when reverend timmy proclaims himself to be the physical embodiment of Christ and he needs the following list of 10 13yo girls to report to his house for special sanctuary....and then asks for your 13 yo daughter to come be part of his house, wait on him, and do all things a wife would do....where the F is their common sense? Hey rev Timmy, we like your sermons and think you have some great points on JC, but you aren't raping my 13 yo daughter....but no, that never seems to happen, instead they clasp their hands together in joy at the prospect that she was selected. Makes me rage.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-08-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
It's always the children who suffer most.

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22-08-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
(22-08-2014 08:49 AM)Sam Wrote:  It's always the children who suffer most.

It's so sad that children are indoctrinated with this crap. That poor girl believed what he was doing was ok.

So sad Sad
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22-08-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
(22-08-2014 10:00 AM)MrsFarrow Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 08:49 AM)Sam Wrote:  It's always the children who suffer most.

It's so sad that children are indoctrinated with this crap. That poor girl believed what he was doing was ok.

So sad Sad

This is an exceptionally disturbing case.

But if childhood indoctrination was banned (not really possible) religion would probably die within our lifetimes.

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22-08-2014, 12:34 PM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
(22-08-2014 12:31 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 10:00 AM)MrsFarrow Wrote:  It's so sad that children are indoctrinated with this crap. That poor girl believed what he was doing was ok.

So sad Sad

This is an exceptionally disturbing case.

But if childhood indoctrination was banned (not really possible) religion would probably die within our lifetimes.

THIS. If we could prevent (and we can't) early indoctrination/brainwashing of children, this would die out with the last currently living adult believer.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-08-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: never ceases to amaze me how religion can rob people of their common sense
(22-08-2014 06:49 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Oh I agree, I have a pretty good understanding of human gullibility, sense of awe and how easy it is to sell delusion......but you would think somewhere in the back of your brain a flag would go off when reverend timmy proclaims himself to be the physical embodiment of Christ and he needs the following list of 10 13yo girls to report to his house for special sanctuary....and then asks for your 13 yo daughter to come be part of his house, wait on him, and do all things a wife would do....where the F is their common sense? Hey rev Timmy, we like your sermons and think you have some great points on JC, but you aren't raping my 13 yo daughter....but no, that never seems to happen, instead they clasp their hands together in joy at the prospect that she was selected. Makes me rage.

You are mixing up thoughts and actions. Maybe these people have doubts internally, but they still comply with the demand.

Also there is the problem of the hot-cold empathy gap:
When people are highly emotional conscious reasoning goes out the window. In this hot emotional state one is simply unable to think clearly. (This by the way is how con artists do their schemes. Because if you really thought about it in a calm and reasonable manner, you would rarely ever fall for their ploys.)
The problem is that whether we are emotional (hot) or cool (cold), we are unable to fully grasp the extent of the effects of being highly emotional. We are unable to realize the limitations we have when we are emotional. And when cool and collected, we are unable to accurately assess how severe the limitations will be the next time we are emotional.
That's just way it is. One blind spot of our brains among many.

"Newton's third law: The only way humans have ever figured out of getting somewhere is to leave something behind." - TARS, Interstellar
"Newtons drittes Gesetz: Der einzige Weg wie Menschen irgendwo hin kommen, ist der dass sie etwas zurücklassen." - TARS, Interstellar
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