not believing in god and believing in no god
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09-02-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
Hey, Chas.

What the fuck?

Do you believe that people eat dog?
Do you believe that the sun always sets in the West?
Do you believe that the Habs have won 24 Stanley Cups?
Do you believe that the Sun orbits the Earth?
Do you believe that Muselix is better than Special K?
Do you believe that the original trillogy is better than the prequels?
Do you believe that there is a God?

How is the last question any different than the first six? Like for real, it's a straight up question. They all are.

Here's my answers:
-Yes
-Yes
-Yes
-No
-I don't know
-Yes
-I don't know

I don't get your objection. So if the above didn't shake something loose, then rewrite the question for me.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-02-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 04:06 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

What the fuck?

Do you believe that people eat dog?
Do you believe that the sun always sets in the West?
Do you believe that the Habs have won 24 Stanley Cups?
Do you believe that the Sun orbits the Earth?
Do you believe that Muselix is better than Special K?
Do you believe that the original trillogy is better than the prequels?
Do you believe that there is a God?

How is the last question any different than the first six? Like for real, it's a straight up question. They all are.

Here's my answers:
-Yes
-Yes
-Yes
-No
-I don't know
-Yes
-I don't know

I don't get your objection. So if the above didn't shake something loose, then rewrite the question for me.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Simple questions with simple answers are easily misleading. Lawyers use them all the time.



I do not believe there are any gods as there is no evidence for their existence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:08 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  not believing in god is the same as believing there is no god.
...
Is not believeing in "dark energy" the same as believing there is no such thing as "dark energy"?

Is not seeing something 'proven' the same as seeing it 'disproven'?

Give me a break! Rolleyes
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09-02-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:08 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  ive often heard theists say to atheists that not believing in god is the same as believing there is no god. then i often hear the atheist deny this stating the two are not the same. i must admit that i dont get this. they seem the same to me. can someone explain what the differance is if in fact there is one?

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Pretty much that easy.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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09-02-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 04:14 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(08-02-2013 08:08 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  not believing in god is the same as believing there is no god.
...
Is not believeing in "dark energy" the same as believing there is no such thing as "dark energy"?

Is not seeing something 'proven' the same as seeing it 'disproven'?

Give me a break! Rolleyes
why do you need a break? what is it about my question that deserves an eyeroll? its not like i made an assertion even though you excluded the rest of my post perhaps to make it seem like i did. or perhaps you roll your eyes because of your "superior" command of the english language? maybe i dont understand the distinction between the two ideas in question. maybe you should step down to the level of us lowly mortals who dont know everything about everything.
so whats the deal? did i misread you?
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09-02-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
I am truly sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

I was NOT rolling my eyes at you, but rather at the question itself: all i can do is repeat my question:

"Is not seeing something 'proven' the same as seeing it 'disproven'?"

I thought the distinction was obvious.

If I offended you -- I am sorry -- I did not mean to do that. Sad
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09-02-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
If you rewrite the statements "I don't believe a god exists" and "I believe no god exists" as logic statements, the difference becomes obvious.

Where ! is the negation, and X is the proposition.

I don't believe a god exists - I ! believe X exists.
I believe no god exists - I believe ! X exists.

The former statement negates 'believe' (the mental state), the later negates 'X' (the proposition). The former is not having a belief on the existence of X, the later is having a belief that X does not exist.
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09-02-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
...
The difference boils down to the difference between doubt and certainty.
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09-02-2013, 04:54 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:08 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  ive often heard theists say to atheists that not believing in god is the same as believing there is no god. then i often hear the atheist deny this stating the two are not the same. i must admit that i dont get this. they seem the same to me. can someone explain what the differance is if in fact there is one?

I don't believe in god.

I believe there is no god.

These are different things.

Belief might be perceived as something which we might accept as a fact, for which there is some evident proof.
We also might consider that fact can change and gain prominence or diminish as further evidence is gained.

If I say, I don't believe in god, I'm saying: I don't have evidential proof that there is such a thing. Keeps open possibilities for evidence I suppose.

If I say, I believe there is no god, I'm saying: I do have evidential proof that there is no such thing. This would be news, indeed because I want to see this proof.

To me, belief gives too much credit for (and attention to) something that I have little or no evidence for or interest in.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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09-02-2013, 05:14 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 04:15 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Pretty much that easy.
That is a great picture. I wish I had it yesterday when I was explaining to my wife how she is basically an agnostic/theist (aka deist).
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