not believing in god and believing in no god
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08-02-2013, 08:08 PM
not believing in god and believing in no god
ive often heard theists say to atheists that not believing in god is the same as believing there is no god. then i often hear the atheist deny this stating the two are not the same. i must admit that i dont get this. they seem the same to me. can someone explain what the differance is if in fact there is one?
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08-02-2013, 08:20 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
Belief means making a claim about reality with no reason or logic to support it. "I believe that an invisible dragon lives inside cigarette lighters." That is a claim made by believers.

A non believer rejects those claims. The non believer doesn't reject those claims because they feel like it (they'd be a "believer" if so) but knows through reason and logic that dragons have never existed and could never exist, etc, etc.
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08-02-2013, 08:20 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
I like Matt Dillahunty's way of describing it...

Is god guilty or not guilty of existing?

Not the same as ...

Is god innocent of existing?

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08-02-2013, 08:21 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:08 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  ive often heard theists say to atheists that not believing in god is the same as believing there is no god. then i often hear the atheist deny this stating the two are not the same. i must admit that i dont get this. they seem the same to me. can someone explain what the differance is if in fact there is one?
An agnostic atheist doesn't make the claim that there is no god, only that he/she doesn't believe there is.

I don't believe in god as there is no evidence for, but much against. I have no proof of no god.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-02-2013, 08:36 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
I've noticed this too. My position is the rejection of a claim based on a lack of evidence in support of it. So I do not believe in the god hypothesis, as Chas pointed out this is an agnostic atheist. I do not however, believe that no god could exist, that would make me a gnostic atheist.

I find it funny how some people can say they are absolutely certain there is no god, it's much like claiming with absolute certainty that you know there is one. All I know is that it seems incredibly unlikely that there is a god, because we have no evidence of divine intervention with the world, and as science progresses we can see that things have natural explanations, and don't require a supernatural one. This is certainly why so many religious dislike evolution.

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08-02-2013, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2013 08:48 PM by PoolBoyG.)
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
Agnostics... how I loathe you.

Suppose some random passer by tells you that Mount Olympus is jutting out of your backyard. You go to check (it's an especially boring day) but only find your lovely rose garden and nothing else. Do you then throw your hands up into the air and proclaim "I see no evidence of a Mount Olympus, BUT HOW DO I KNOW FOR SURE!? Sigh. I must hold that it's possible."

What is the purpose of having a word like agnosticism if everything within or outside of reality is "possible". "I can't say for a fact that my head is not a Turkey Sandwich."
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08-02-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:41 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  Agnostics... how I loathe you.

Suppose some random passer by tells you that Mount Olympus is jutting out of your backyard. You go to check (it's an especially boring day) but only find your lovely rose garden and nothing else. Do you then throw your hands up into the air and proclaim "I see no evidence of a Mount Olympus, BUT HOW DO I KNOW FOR SURE!? Sigh. I must hold that it's possible"

What is the purpose of having a word like agnosticism if everything within or outside of reality is all "likely". "I can't say for a fact that my head is not a Turkey Sandwich."

Certainly not. However the existence of a god is much more difficult to prove either way. It could be a deistic god that set the universe in motion and now just watches. We have no evidence this is not the case, so to assume it is would be irrational.

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08-02-2013, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2013 08:57 PM by PoolBoyG.)
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
All are claims, all of which have no basis in reality.

Your head is a turkey sandwich. It's just invisible to you and everyone else, and to any known instruments. So, with the claims I laid out, it's "much more difficult to prove", and so, in your eyes, is acceptable, and possible?

That's the last of my comments. I can't go any further from here; we'd just be repeating ourselves I think. I have to get back to my show (Peep Show, bloody brilliant).
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08-02-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:53 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  All are claims, all of which have no basis in reality.

Your head is a turkey sandwich. It's just invisible to you and everyone else, and to any known instruments. So, with the claims I laid out, it's "much more difficult to prove", and so, in your eyes, is acceptable, and possible?
Possible, and "worth considering the possibility of" are quite different. Just because something is possible doesn't mean the credentials for it should be taken seriously in any way, shape, or form.



The existence of gods is possible, but retardely low and not worth considering.

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08-02-2013, 09:01 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(08-02-2013 08:53 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  All are claims, all of which have no basis in reality.

Your head is a turkey sandwich. It's just invisible to you and everyone else, and to any known instruments. So, with the claims I laid out, it's "much more difficult to prove", and so, in your eyes, is acceptable, and possible?

Acceptable and possible? No. The turkey sandwich is something that we created, the existence of turkey sandwiches are dependant on us existing. That claim is about a supernatural turkey sandwich, While the claim of god can just be a creator of everything we know to exist. I'm not saying I find this likely at all, just that I can't say with certainty that it is not the case.

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