not believing in god and believing in no god
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09-02-2013, 06:41 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2013 06:47 PM by Ghost.)
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
Hey, Zat.

Allow me to dramatise your last post.





I don't understand. I just don't. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm not trying to undermine anyone. I'm not feeble minded. I just don't understand. C'est la même chose si je parle en français. Probablement, vous ne comprendrez pas ce que c'est que je dis. Ce n'aide pas si je continue à parler français ou si je parle plus fort. Vous ne me comprenez pas. (It's the same thing if I speak in French. Probably, you won't understand what it is that I'm saying. It doesn't help if I continue to speak French or if I speak louder. You don't understand me.) I don't speak the French of this distinction between "I don't believe in God" and "There is no God." I'm certain it makes sense to you. But I got nuthin.

Hey, Chas.

Quote: How is "I do not believe there are any gods as there is no evidence for their existence" not an answer?

Because I BEGAN by saying that I don't see a difference between that and "There is no God." So what you did is akin to defining a word by using the word. "The sky means the sky." "Fast means going fast." It doesn't help. So I asked you what I still believe is a straight forward question. And you refused to answer with anything else but the thing I said in the beginning that I didn't understand and accused me of all kinds of nonsense for having the audacity to ask it. I wasn't looking for your standard answer because your standard answer means nothing to me conceptually. I wanted to hear your answer to my question so that I might get a better understanding of what it is that you actually believe. Because I don't. And I want to. So no, you didn't answer MY question.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-02-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 06:41 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I don't speak the French of this distinction between "I don't believe in God" and "There is no God." I'm certain it makes sense to you. But I got nuthin.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

The first expresses a lack of belief without asserting an external fact, the second asserts a fact.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2013, 06:50 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
Hey, Chas.

Quote:The first expresses a lack of belief without asserting an external fact, the second asserts a fact.

Great. Now what's the difference?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-02-2013, 06:51 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 06:50 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Quote:The first expresses a lack of belief without asserting an external fact, the second asserts a fact.

Great. Now what's the difference?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt


The former requires no evidence, the latter does.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2013, 07:05 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
Ok, Chas.

I think I'm done with you for today. I don't appreciate feeling like I'm being treated like an idiot and feeling like I'm not being taken seriously.
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09-02-2013, 07:08 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 07:05 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Ok, Chas.

I think I'm done with you for today. I don't appreciate feeling like I'm being treated like an idiot and feeling like I'm not being taken seriously.

I can't seriously believe that you can't see the difference.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2013, 07:13 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 06:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-02-2013 06:41 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I don't speak the French of this distinction between "I don't believe in God" and "There is no God." I'm certain it makes sense to you. But I got nuthin.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

The first expresses a lack of belief without asserting an external fact, the second asserts a fact.
ahh.. i see now what you are saying. although im not sure that the second asserts a fact.. i think my problem with this whole thing is the word "believe."
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09-02-2013, 07:15 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 07:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-02-2013 07:05 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Ok, Chas.

I think I'm done with you for today. I don't appreciate feeling like I'm being treated like an idiot and feeling like I'm not being taken seriously.

I can't seriously believe that you can't see the difference.

I laughed well done sirs.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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09-02-2013, 07:16 PM
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
(09-02-2013 07:13 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(09-02-2013 06:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  The first expresses a lack of belief without asserting an external fact, the second asserts a fact.
ahh.. i see now what you are saying. although im not sure that the second asserts a fact.. i think my problem with this whole thing is the word "believe."


That is everyone's problem with the question. 'Believe' has multiple, nuanced meanings. This is why I would not answer Ghost's multiple choice question.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2013, 07:43 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2013 07:49 PM by kim.)
RE: not believing in god and believing in no god
I like to strip things down, too - especially with twisty things. I hope this helps. Shy

I don't believe ________… means: I do not have proof of something (existence of god, in this case) doubt / skeptical

I believe there is not ________… means: I do have proof of something … (existence of god, in this case) certainty / absolute

The blank can be filled in with evolution or god or pretzels or masturbation.... etc.,.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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