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07-09-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
(07-09-2014 02:17 PM)Shamma Wrote:  Hello Sleepy


atheists .. !

I really can't imagine that you guys don't believe on the judgement day!!

Do you really think that all theses life, creatures, humanity .. are going to "nowhere"

and exist for nothing .. Only for the purpose of existence??

Then why is everything matching ?? The circle of life .. animals plants food ... etc

every creature has its own environment and necessities for living..

What about human brains .. how intelligent ! How did this happen?? could it possibly be by chance , natural selection, evolution... !!

I really would like to think about these stuff with you guys.. just give me reasons why would someone not believe on a creator for all of this?? I mean really what makes you so sure .. and take the risk of disbelieving ??

Yet another driveby who doesn't actually take what he/she is doing seriously. Yawn.
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07-09-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
(07-09-2014 05:02 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 04:41 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Ah, the usual Sunday afternoon drive-by.

I bet there's a Sunday school class where the teacher assigns one student every week to "go set those atheists straight." I'd guess about 5 extra credit points or so.....

Probably whoever gets the most points by the last Sunday of the month get's a pizza party.

Hmm... I don't remember doing that at Sunday school.
I do remember an assignment where we drew a picture of a man living in a fish and drawing Jebus in a heart. The contest(and I am not making this shit up) was to see who can come up with the best reason why Jebus living in the heart was infinitely superior to the man living in the fish. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww how fucking adorable that was.

I also remembered having to put my last quarter onto the collection plate. That last quarter couldève been a kick ass Street Fighter 2 game... damm it!! Censored
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07-09-2014, 05:13 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
Do drive-bys actually expect to convert us by posting a single message once and not replying to anything anyone says, ever? What's the (non) thought process involved here? Confused

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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07-09-2014, 05:17 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2014 08:41 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
(07-09-2014 02:17 PM)Shamma Wrote:  Hello Sleepy


atheists .. !

I really can't imagine that you guys don't believe on the judgement day!!

Do you really think that all theses life, creatures, humanity .. are going to "nowhere"

and exist for nothing .. Only for the purpose of existence??

Then why is everything matching ?? The circle of life .. animals plants food ... etc

every creature has its own environment and necessities for living..

What about human brains .. how intelligent ! How did this happen?? could it possibly be by chance , natural selection, evolution... !!

I really would like to think about these stuff with you guys.. just give me reasons why would someone not believe on a creator for all of this?? I mean really what makes you so sure .. and take the risk of disbelieving ??

Hi Shamma!

What is the judgement day? Please expound and cite your references!

Do you really think that all life, creatures, humanity .. are going "somewhere"

and exist for something .. Only for the purpose of divine worship? Why?

Why do living organisms have vestigial non useful organs and bone structures, like the pelvis in whales, or the tailbone within humans. How about how we have a fish's arch fin structures and circulatory system within early human embryonic stages? Why do our testicles start up high in our chests like a fish, then drop down during our development stages to pop out of a hole in our body cavity, thus creating our tendency for hernias..(imperfect design much?).

"What about human brains .. how intelligent ! How did this happen?? could it possibly be by chance , natural selection, evolution... !!"

yes actually it is called evolution, take a class in it, you may learn some stuff Smartass

I really would like to talk about this stuff with you as well. just give me reasons why would someone believe in a creator for all of this?? I mean really what makes you so sure ..because of the fictional book the bible? because the complexity of the world and your lack of science based education makes it seem so impossible for it to exist?

"and take the risk of disbelieving ??"

What risk? oh, perhaps you are referring to Paschal's wager, here let me help you with that.

Pascal's Wager - It is a "safe bet" to believe in God just in case he is real. What's the harm? If you believe and he doesn't exist, you don't lose anything, but if you don't believe and he does exist, you lose big time.

One cannot pretend to believe, one either does or does not. I surmise that a large percentage of "christians" go through the motions under this pretense. If there is a god, I am sure he can see through the pretending..the greatest problem with the wager is its suggestion that a rational person can knowingly will himself to believe a proposition for which he has no evidence. A person can profess any creed he likes, of course, but to really believe something, he must also believe that the belief under consideration is true.

As a parting gift, I will share with you a recent paper I wrote in regards to evolution that you may enjoy. Drooling

Amongst the plethora of delusional websites out there that try so hard to refute logic, science and empirical evidence, the cream of the crop so to speak would have to go to Answersingenesis. The founder of this misinformation site is Ken Ham, and he is a biblical literalist. These types are always the easiest to discredit. He posits that because there are fish fossils on top of mountains, that this proves the mythical global flood parable from Genesis 7 and 8.

“Marine fossils are also found high in the Himalayas, the world’s tallest mountain range, reaching up to 29,029 feet (8,848 m) above sea level.3 For example, fossil ammonites (coiled marine cephalopods) are found in limestone beds in the Himalayas of Nepal. All geologists agree that ocean waters must have buried these marine fossils in these limestone beds. So how did these marine limestone beds get high up in the Himalayas?” (Snelling 2007)

I will answer this in several layers. First, how did the fish fossils get on the mountaintop? Apparently Ken Ham has not heard of plate tectonics or continental drift. In fact, with GPS satellite technology, we can see continental drift ongoing, the continents move approx. 2-4 inches further apart each year. It was not the mythical global flood that put the fish fossils on the mountaintops, but continents colliding and pushing up, thus depositing fish high into the lime layer exposed, as per below;

“The Himalayas are often referred to as the "roof of the world" because they host the highest peaks on Earth, most famously Mt. Everest at 8,848 meters above sea level. But the rock that caps Mt. Everest is limestone, a type of rock that forms at the bottom of warm, shallow seas and is composed primarily of fossilized marine creatures, everything from plankton to clams and fish. For years, geologists struggled to explain how the remains of tiny sea organisms could exist at the top of a mountain range.

Into the 1900s, many scientists believed that as Earth cooled after its formation, the planet's surface contracted and wrinkled like the skin of an apple, subjected to the sun and drying out over time. The contraction theory, independently proposed by two prominent scientists in the late 1800s and early 1900s, implied that mountain ranges like the Himalayas were forced up by the wrinkling process. This theory assumed that all of the features on Earth had formed during one cooling event and that the planet was relatively static, changing little as the cooling (and wrinkling) slowed to a halt over millions of years.

The Himalayas, as it turns out, started forming about 40 million years ago when the Indian Plate collided head-on with the Eurasian Plate, shoving and folding rocks that had formed below sea level into lofty peaks. Because the Indian Plate is still moving northward, the Himalayas are still rising at a rate of about 1 cm per year. We no longer need to invoke a shrinking, wrinkled Earth to explain the marine fossils at the top of these tall mountains; it is the process of plate tectonics that continues to lift seafloor rocks to the sky.” (Egger, 2003)

Second, the global flood never happened. There is not enough water on or in the world to cover the highest mountain by 40 feet. Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. But alas, this of course doesn’t exist. How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.

Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and other characters. Why do none of these show up? Because it never happened.

Egyptian civilization is probably familiar to most of us. Egypt’s dynastic history started with the uniting of Upper and Lower Egypt by King Menes, around 3100 BCE. The Egyptian period known as the “Old Kingdom” lasted from 2800 to 2175 BCE. During this time many of the pyramids were built. There is no record, written or archaeological, for a monster flood destroying and completely interrupting this countries infrastructure or it’s monuments such as the Sphinx, the Step Pyramid, or the Great Pyramids, which were built before ‘The Flood’

China has a reasonably accurate history starting around 3000 BCE. According to texts from a Chinese book called “Shu King” and verified by archaeological records, China was undergoing a prosperous period around 2400 to 2200 BCE during the early Yaou Dynasty. They have no record of a cataclysmic flood interrupting their whole civilization and destroying the infrastructure of the country.

The Indus valley civilization has a well-known history dating back to perhaps 3100 BCE. By 2500 BCE there were two major cities, Mohendaro (or Mohenjo-Daro) and Harrapa, which rivaled Egypt and Mesopotamia in population and technologies. This great Civilization also encompassed maybe 100 smaller cities, towns, and villages, and didn’t fall until about 1500 BCE. They have no record of a worldwide civilization-destroying flood.

The Minoan civilization was probably as old as Egypt. Based on the Island of Crete, this civilization grew quickly and was highly advanced by 2500 BCE. By the middle of the second millennium it had an alphabet, used bronze tools, had pottery, textiles, advanced architecture, and had established cities around the Islands. It continued to grow and was a center for trade and culture until about the mid-1400′s BCE when it was suddenly destroyed by the violent eruption of the Thera volcano. There has been no evidence unearthed from this civilization that shows a flood destroying their whole infrastructure, at any time in their existence.

I could, and have before, write quite a lengthy paper refuting the global flood myth, but let’s look at it scientifically shall we? The conventional flood story states that the flood waters came from rain that lasted 40 days and 40 night right? Rain appears when the atmosphere can no longer support water in the vapor phase and it becomes saturated. So normally, the atmosphere is on the brink of saturation, and the variations in temperature and pressure caused by weather fronts are capable of altering the threshold at which precipitation will form quite easily. What about the amount of water vapor suspended in air needed for the 4.5 billion cubic kilometers of water needed for the global flood? The water vapor currently in the air is only around 2-3% on average, with a maximum of 4% limited by temperature and pressure.

The change in atmospheric conditions required to support enough vapor for 112 million cubic kilometers of rain per day - about 120,000 times more than the current daily rainfall worldwide - would have rendered the air unbreathable.

Indeed, the atmosphere really couldn't sustain that much water even under the most extreme temperature and pressure conditions the planet can produce. If the conditions were right for that much water to be in the atmosphere, humans and virtually every other animal would have drowned through the simple act of breathing, as well as turning the earth into the equivalent of a pressure cooker with atmospheric pressure at nearly a thousand psi instead of the standard 14.7 or so that we have today.

The global flood story requires that only eight people were left alive in 2349 BCE. This does not allow enough time for humans to repopulate the earth. In 2000 BCE only 350 years after the flood the population of the world was 27 million. To go from a population of eight to a population of 27 million in 350 years would require a population growth rate of 136.07%. That is 133% more than the fastest growing portions of the world today.

The Bible also places the date of construction on the Tower of Babel roughly 100 years after the great flood. Saying a population could go from 6 people (Noah and his wife don't count, they didn't have any more children) to enough people to build the Tower of Babel as it is described in the Bible is absurd. This tower was so great that it threatened "god", so it must have been greater that the pyramid of Khufu which took 30,000 people to build. Even a growth rate of 500%, which is even more absurd beyond all imagination, would only produce about half the required people to even begin to think about such a construction project.

“Just understand that it’s possible to observe the deviation of DNA strands by retroactively measuring them to a common strand. This period back to a common ancestor has been determined to be tens of thousands of years, an age remarkably consistent with the ones established for human civilization remains through previously mentioned dating methods. We do not see the five thousand years that our DNA would reveal if all humans descended from the sole survivors of God’s flood.” (Long 2005)

In regards to evolution and fossils, the law of faunal succession shows, " You will never find a Neanderthal bone in the same stratum as a Tyrannosaurus rex bone. Tyronnosaurus rexes weren’t alive at the same time; therefore, their stratum didn’t get laid down at the same time.” And seashell fossils found in the Appalachian mountains (world’s oldest mountain range) “The shells were deposited in layers on the Ocean floor over millions of years, layers that would be violently broken up and rippled into a mountain range 480,000,000 years ago by a catastrophic earthquake.” (Somma 2012)

I could go on and on, but let’s simply say, upon careful contemplation of all known evidence, there is as much chance the global flood happened, as there is that I have a unicorn in my backyard. Zero. Thus Ken Ham's ideological young earth creationist view of evolution is invalid.

References:

Egger, Anne (2003 July). The origins of plate tectonic theory. Visionlearning.

Retrieved from http://www.visionlearning.com/en/library...-Theory/65

Long, J. (2005 January). Biblical nonsense: A review of the bible for doubting christians. Lincoln, NE: I universe Publishing

Retrieved from http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter6.html

Snelling, A. (2007 September). High & dry sea creatures; flood evidence number one.

Retrieved from https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fos...creatures/

Somma, R. (2012 february). 101 reasons why evolution is true.

Retrieved from http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reas...oftheEarth

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"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-09-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
Shamma is missing his Lama Ding Dong




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-09-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
OK, I will break this down for you.


(07-09-2014 02:17 PM)Shamma Wrote:  Hello Sleepy


atheists .. !

I really can't imagine that you guys don't believe on the judgement day!!

Judgement day has been any day now for 1981 years now. That is 33 AD when Judgement day was any day now to today. Countless theories and judgements and remember that old pastor guy holding the bible waving his skinny long figures? Someone sold their house and car and gave away 100% of all their food, money and life's work "Knowing" that we would all die and be raptured on MAy 21 2011, all because judgement day.



Quote:Do you really think that all theses life, creatures, humanity .. are going to "nowhere"

and exist for nothing .. Only for the purpose of existence??

On the cosmic scale, yes, we do not have an actual purpose. If you had any idea how big the observable universe is, you might have some idea why we do not matter.

On our own scale for how large our perception of our own existence is. Purpose is what YOU give it and what YOU give it alone and nothing more.



Quote:Then why is everything matching ?? The circle of life .. animals plants food ... etc

every creature has its own environment and necessities for living..


Millions of years of evolution, mass extinctions. Really, this is a very long reply to completely satisfy something like this. It is a very long question to be answered.
[/quote]

Quote: What about human brains .. how intelligent ! How did this happen?? could it possibly be by chance , natural selection, evolution... !!


I am not sure how to answer that one. I personally do not know how the human brain could had evolved over time or all of the many factors that could had gone into how it became the way it was. I do however, know that the two major factors in how it got its first start is that we have two very awesome things that other animals also have.

1. We are self aware
2. We work with tools.

I suppose another major factor could had been us developing a far greater sense of curiosity then our other animal brothers and sisters.


Quote:I really would like to think about these stuff with you guys.. just give me reasons why would someone not believe on a creator for all of this?? I mean really what makes you so sure .. and take the risk of disbelieving ??

Once you answer why your creator does not need a creator, you might be mentally capable of being able to sit down and think by yourself long enough to be able to consider why we do not think something needs to be created in order for it to exist.
There is zero evidence of any cosmic hands guiding anything or having created anything.

As a final note: A risk to disbelieving? What makes you take the risk of disbelieving in Baron Semedi? Amaterasu? Are you really sure you are willing to take the risk of being wrong in disbelieving in Amaterasu? She might send you to Yomi ( the land of the dead ) after you die! You wouldn't want to be hanging around there and meet Yami, the great evil god would you? Of course not! So why take that chance? Once you answer that question for yourself in a honest fashion that does not hinge on the bible as being your sole reason. You will understand.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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07-09-2014, 06:23 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
(07-09-2014 05:12 PM)xieulong Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 05:02 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Probably whoever gets the most points by the last Sunday of the month get's a pizza party.

Hmm... I don't remember doing that at Sunday school.
I do remember an assignment where we drew a picture of a man living in a fish and drawing Jebus in a heart. The contest(and I am not making this shit up) was to see who can come up with the best reason why Jebus living in the heart was infinitely superior to the man living in the fish. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww how fucking adorable that was.

I also remembered having to put my last quarter onto the collection plate. That last quarter couldève been a kick ass Street Fighter 2 game... damm it!! Censored

Wtf and Gasp damn them for making you miss out on Street Fighter 2

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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07-09-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
Woah, look at all that spacing you used and attempts at ellipses! You were just one period away every time! You must really know how to do this thinking thing! Sorry, I don't normally pick apart posts and whatnot. Today, however, I'm feeling rather plucky.

(07-09-2014 02:17 PM)Shamma Wrote:  Hello Sleepy
Wipe that smug little grin off your face, child!

Quote:atheists .. !
...! What...are we ...in a Final Fantasy game...?

Quote:I really can't imagine that you guys don't believe on the judgement day!!
It's not hard to imagine. When I believed in god, I could imagine fairly easily that people didn't believe in an afterlife. Honey, I'm thinking you had a boring childhood based on your poor sense of imagination. Don't you worry! I'll help you fix that. We're going to trap you in a room that only has a blanket fort, a crayon box, paper and tape. You will not leave until you can explain why Jeremy the Balloonicorn hates the color green with complete ease and make matching crowns to look good when you go wherever you think Jeremy wants you to go. My balloonicorn, Gregor, changes colors because of some weird reaction with his blood and all the rum he drinks (but we both like rum too much to stop)! You'll be imagining like a pro in no time!

Quote:Do you really think that all theses life, creatures, humanity .. are going to "nowhere"

and exist for nothing .. Only for the purpose of existence??
Everyone has their own opinion on that. No one has the same beliefs as another. It's just the same with people within a religion just as it is people that aren't within a religion. Most people that lack faith in a deity do believe life just simply end. It don't go "nowhere", just stops. Some aren't sure. Either way, we know we all exist together (actually, some probably will debate whether or not we really exist). In general, we just want to make life as good as possible since this will be our only life as far as we know. Well, most of us. Like I said, everyone's different. Everyone's a hero in their own way, everyone can blaze a hero's trail. Oh, forgive me. Doctor Horrible got stuck in my head.


Quote:Then why is everything matching ?? The circle of life .. animals plants food ... etc

every creature has its own environment and necessities for living..
I know everyone pulls this example out, but what is the divine purpose for platypuses? Did god get bored one day and say, "yea, and I shall make mine prank unto the taxidermist, veritably, I shall make a mammal which hath a mouth like unto a duck and doth lay eggs, yeah, it shall cause great confusion and be known unto my nations as Platypus." Because if that was the idea, god succeeded.

Quote:What about human brains .. how intelligent ! How did this happen?? could it possibly be by chance , natural selection, evolution... !!
Well, if you noticed over the ass-ton of years, the human mind has come to comprehend more. From hunting and gathering in caves to learning how to train animals for their purpose to developing a form of communication, humans learn and create as they exist. With every generation, we are getting smarter. It's like our brains are evolving to be smarter! I mean, if we were smart all along, why did it take civilization so long to come up with things like vaccines and cars and all that jazz from the beginning instead of gradually obtaining it over time? Oh, and jazz music too. Why did we wait so long for jazz if our taste in music didn't evolve and was just gifted to us from a creator? Jazz is good stuff! Come on, you know it's true!

Quote:I really would like to think about these stuff with you guys..
Great! I'd like you to think too!

Quote: just give me reasons why would someone not believe on a creator for all of this?? I mean really what makes you so sure .. and take the risk of disbelieving ??
Well, I got two main reasons.

Reason 1) Evidence. Yes, every creator(s) has a nice little book about all the stuff their followers said they did. What else they got? A whole buncha fanclubs with fans going, "My creator is the best! Join the club! We got perks!"? But what evidence do you have to show those nasty old plagues in Egypt? How many times have they found Noah's ark? These are examples for Christianity, but same point applies to other religions. In short, I do not see much evidence to support what occurs in holy books.

Reason 2) God ain't somebody I want to be friends with. Have you read the bible? Or just listen to the stories and thought? Not at god's power but at what he does? If he was a real person, would you want to know him? Really? Do you want to be friends that after their first project said, "screw it I'm flooding this shit," instead of trying to work with what he had to correct things? Or throughout the course of our existence basically said, "well you're free to do whatever you want! Wait, you want to do that? Well, I'm afraid you won't get to hang with me after you die because I didn't like you doing that. In fact, I'll toss you in the worst place imaginable if you can't tell me you're sorry. Well, I did say you could do anything but I don't like that so that's why." Its like holding a plate of cookies by a three year old and not letting the poor child have a delicious baked treat because he played with the doll house instead of coloring. So basically, this God dude isn't someone I want to worship. Plus why would you as the world champ hide and seek player play with a game with amateurs and get mad because they gave up looking for you after a while? You could like yell out in person instead of sending a messenger of a person you're attempting to train to be pro-hide and seek if you really want people to come check out your coolest hiding spot ever.

Between the two reasons, I'm alright with finding out what happens after I die once I die. If god is all forgiving and loving, I figure he'd understand and give me some slack. While I'm waiting to see what you say to all of us, I might indulge on Frank Senatra, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Glenn Miller Orchestra, and some other people that got that swing. Cuz I'm in the mood.

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07-09-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
This would be a good thread to post this, so here goes....

Did you know there are three trees that were here before the date of the alleged Noahtic flood? (Flood dated around 2359 BC)
One is an un-named, currently living bristlecone pine tree with an age of 5064 years! Well before the date of the flood, it is CURRENTLY ALIVE!
Another is named Methuselah which is 4846 years old and is CURRENTLY ALIVE!
A third one is named Prometheus and it is 4844 years old. It was alive up until 1964 when it was accidentally cut down.

These trees COULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED THE FLOOD, not only did they survive, but two of them are still living. This is evidence as plain as the nose on your face that the flood did not happen!

The bible is a book that was meant by the very people that wrote it to be mere literature, nothing more than an ancient Harry Potter book, except people believe it. The instance of the the myth of the Noahtic flood is an example of how the bible plagiarizes stories such as the Epic Of Gilgamesh and creates their own tale of fiction.
Here is a list of fictional stories in the bible:
Creation, Noah, Abraham, Samson, Large parts of David's life, all of the prophetic books and their psuedopigraphical deceptions and the list goes on.

BTW-Jesus is definitely part of this myth-making process, there is no way to tell when the myth ends and reality begins in Jesus' life since it's only second-hand accounts from people that never met or knew him. It's decades old hearsay, it's like someone claims to have interviewed a World-War 2 veteran in 1985 and wrote a book about the war. Know one even knows the veteran, but I suppose we can "take it on faith" that it's 100% accurate!

Utter nonsense, take your poorly thought out faith and go sell crazy some where else.


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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-09-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: ok atheists think with me :)
(07-09-2014 06:34 PM)Miss Suzanne Wrote:  ...! What...are we ...in a Final Fantasy game...?

I wish Undecided I wanna be able to summon Ifrit on any Jehova's Witnesses who knock at my door.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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