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15-03-2012, 04:37 PM
opinions
I just saw a short clip of Til Schweiger (German Actor) ranting in a tv show about a very serious topic.
I am leaving the exact topic out because that's not what I want to talk about.
So I very much aggreed on his opinion but the rest of the people looked pretty shocked.

The video got me to think.
How are we supposed to say the truth about what we think about difficult topics?
Why is it judged so badly to use heavy words for heavy topics?

(the following is an example) What about saying that a serial killer should be killed? (this was an example)

Let's say this is my opinion. How shocked would you be? What if I told you this in the face, will you nod and be like, "yeah, well you are kinda right", or will you be like "no no nevahhh", or will you start preaching human rights and whatever else to me?

There are lots of such topics and most of the time when talking to whoever, I find myself watching what I say and stay as objective as humanly possible although I do have a real hard opinion on lots of topics. But would I say those things they would be considered rude, uneducated, nasty, stupid, even though I put a lot of thought into those things.

So saying something is pretty difficult

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15-03-2012, 04:47 PM
RE: opinions
Well for me I am very truthfull....... harshfully so sometimes if people ask for it.

I think there is a fine line between respecting people and having your say. Yes I wouldnt want to upset anybody but then I need to convey my opinion at the same time. I think out of politeness a lot of people just nod and agree when in reality they may either disagree with you in full or in part, this sort of attitude pisses me off because I would rather people be straight with me.

If you believe you are entitled to your own opinion then by "fairness" you must respect other peoples opinions.......even if you dont agree with them. Cool

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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15-03-2012, 09:07 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2012 09:14 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: opinions
(15-03-2012 04:37 PM)Leela Wrote:  How are we supposed to say the truth about what we think about difficult topics?
Why is it judged so badly to use heavy words for heavy topics?



Thinking requires more than finding the appropriate words. It also requires listening, reflecting, taking in new information or a different perspective, and sometimes changing one's mind.

The trouble with heavy words is that they tend to shut down conversation. The other person sees no point of entry, no room for their opposing or differing opinion.
If you have already done all your thinking and are satisfied that your firm and final conviction can't and shouldn't change anymore, then there need not be any discussion. You just state your absolute opinion, and that's it.
Sometimes, on some subjects, i do that, and if people don't like it, they don't need to.
Still, it doesn't hurt to use polite words whenever possible.

PS Bemore, you don't have to respect every opinion - just every person's right to be an idjit.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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15-03-2012, 09:51 PM
RE: opinions
Polite Pragmatism

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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16-03-2012, 12:53 AM
RE: opinions
I simple solution is to ask questions...
"So are you saying that...?"
"Does that mean it is never right or appropriate to...?"

Essentially this is "active" listening in that you are probing for more clarification on the other person's view. The benefit is that your questions are also revealing your view in a non-threatening way because your opponent can not be sure if you are revealing your position or just playing devil's advocate.
You are also demonstrating that you are open to possibly change your position. As Bemore said, if you are not open to this just state your position and then walk away.

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16-03-2012, 10:58 AM
RE: opinions
DLJ that was exactly my point.
You can't really say something that sounds hard because it might offend someone or it might make you sound like a "bad guy" but some things, even some that are a general opinion of a majority, will not be said out loud the way they are thought.
Not that it bothers me really, I just find it interesting.
If people in general wouldn't grow up with this whole attitude of getting offended and offending by simply stating an opinion we wouldn't have this problem. We might even be more accepting of other people's opinion.
I know it from myself, I can feel offended if someone doesn't share my opinion and then I need time to think about it and accept it and maybe even change mine but first will be feeling offended. No matter if the offence was on purpose or not.

Btw I do indeed exclude something like walking into a gay bar and telling people there that they are sick and need therapy (not my opinion, just an example). Behaviour like that is just plain stupid.

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16-03-2012, 11:39 AM
RE: opinions
Leela,
I follow your logic up to the last part.

Personally, I do not find anything offensive, although things like stupidity or ignorance makes me roll my eyes skyward. It's a Brit-thing to be stoical, I think.
Also, us Brits have a well-known characteristic of talking around a subject and I've worked with many Yanks and Cloggies who find it irritating that we are not more direct.

But, I thank you... you have got me thinking of the evolutionary advantages of being circumspect vs being direct and of taking offence. I think the former is obvious but less obvious to me is why a being-offended-gene is of benefit. Only by understanding this could you then formulate a plan to change attitudes.

But then I'm confused by your logic regarding the gay-bar part. I know it was just an example but this implies there is a threshhold that should not be crossed. Surely, if you want to have a world where no one gets offended by hard-sounding opinions, then nothing needs to be off-limits. It's the problematic issue of freedom of expression vs hate-speech / incitement to violence. How is that threshhold defined and by whom? Note issues like drawing pics of Mo or the Satanic Verses.
I'm in favour of total freedom of speech and as Ricky Gervais would say... people have the right to be offended but being offended does not make them right.
And a great attitude I learned from my time in Oz when I opposed someone's opinion... the reply was: Suck it up kiddo!

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16-03-2012, 01:18 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2012 01:22 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: opinions
There is indeed a fine grey zone between calling a shovel a spade and calling a person the same... also between people who need to be offended to wake them up and people who need a little consideration for the bruises they've already sustained.
Public discourse is forever in flux, changing tone and vocabulary, range and depth. The references to bodily functions which seems generally accepted now were hardly ever heard in public 40 years ago, but some of the epitaphs that were freely cast about then are now considered anathema. Etiquette and political correctness are constantly challenged, constantly redrawn.

And, of course, the power structure demands - or rather, arranges, by implication, by misdirection, by example, by level of pundit outrage and coverage of trivia - that some problems never be openly discussed among the people who most need to understand them. These subjects require a particularly sensitive approach, because insulting any major participant shuts the communication down before it's properly begun.
It's okay to think in your own head as bluntly and plainly as you like, but if you then want to carry on any kind of meaningful discussion with other people who may feel equally strongly on that topic, you need to translate those heavy words into a language of diplomacy.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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16-03-2012, 01:28 PM
RE: opinions
Better to say it straight up if you got something to say IMO. But if you say it straight, be prepared to get some pretty harsh responses too.
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16-03-2012, 02:59 PM
RE: opinions
I chose the gay example because it is a common "oh my gooooodness don't talk about it!"-topic

about the bodily functions, in the middle ages under common people noone would care. you would sit at the table and burb and if you wouldn't burb people would ask you if it wasn't good. years later burbing was not ok anymore, hold your breath, don't make a sound, don't do it and don't talk about it. well in that I think we are going back to the middleages Big Grin

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