over and out
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
05-01-2013, 10:50 AM
over and out
A few of you may have noticed that I got pretty quiet here during the last week or so.

Recent events (in addition to past events) concerning trolling, forum rules, and moderation have brought me to the conclusion that this is not a place for me anymore.

------------- small rant, skip if you are tired of this topic -----------------------

I want to point out a few last things:

I came here a year ago. That was shortly after I had discovered TTA on youtube and listened to all his podcasts. I checked out the website and found that there was a forum as well. I like forums in general so I decided to look. After a few days of reading as a guest I decided to register and become a part of the community.
I learnt to love this place for it's opennes. Because you are being warmly welcomed without judgement.
If you behave like a dick you are treated like one. That's fair.
But the opposite is not happening anymore. If you behave nicely you are not being treated nicely. This became very clear to me when I started to offer help.
First time was with some weird troll whose name I forgot, but I posted in a thread that was about him, how I felt about trolls and a lot of hints and good tips on how to deal with an increasing troll problem. I was being fought at that point. Not by the members but by moderators.
"Freedom of speech"
I kept trying to offer good tips, I adjusted my ideas to how this forum runs, but still I felt like I was talking to a wall. I approached three admins over the past year (yep that many).
The only one who reacted was Erxomai. I told him what my worries for this forum are and that I am very willing to help adjusting it to the huge growth. He adviced me to open a thread in the team forum (where is it by now?) so I could talk with the whole team about this. Again I basically talked to a wall.
"Freedom of speech"

my last post before this one here:
(31-12-2012 06:29 AM)Leela Wrote:  How comes that freedom of speech is more important for those who troll, and damage the forum?

I have no idea how there is even a discussion about people like that? How do you just hide behind "dealt with on a case by case basis"?? And then wait until valuable forum members leave.
You add one fucking rule "No bullying / harassment" and that is all you need to do.
This forum is getting too big to moderate itself and the rules and the moderation should adjust to that.
I know that moderating is a bitch and noone ever really says thank you, but you wouldn't be mod/admin if you wouldn't want to be that.
I have been mod and admin for many years, I put lots of time and effort in, and guess what, although there were always rules (not a so called case by case basis) about bullying and harassment in place, noone ever felt like there is no freedom of speech.

But yeah, keep the trolls and stop caring for those who are actually valuable for this place.

Over and out
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid229971

It is not about certain users. This time it was FZUMedia, before him it was Egor, before him it was someone else.
Regulary special trolls get special attention. Regulary forum members complain about how such people are being dealt with but is anything changing? No.

Isn't this place supposed to be for those who honestly want to talk, exchange ideas, and debate?

Please spare me the "it's not so easy to know who is an ignorant fuck and who is really a troll".
Don't tell me "it's just the holidays, people have too much time"
Do not dare and bring up fucking "Freedom of speech"

I can be a pretty ugly troll too, I chose not to. I have too much time, too, I do not go to a forum to be ugly there. And I am very much for Freedom of speech, but one's freedom stops where it collides with other's freedoms.
And some things are not open for interpretation. Look at Anjele's story. Sure she is back now as far as I get it, but I do completely understand her reaction, and I think the team did not react in a good way.

Yes, every newbie deserves a second chance. They might not know how things are working, yet. But a troll's freedom of speech should not outweigh the peace of a whole forum. It should not outweigh the word of valuable forum members. With valuable I mean people who contribute in a positive way to this forum. Look at people like A2, Dom, Girlyman, LadyJane, Vosur, and so on. (sorry if I did not mention you here, whoever thinks they are missing)

As this place is noticably growing very fast, rules and moderation have to adjust.
Freedom of speech can still be number one, but you can add one rule. The rule is there so you can point people who misbehave towards them "Look here, you agreed to this. Please don't xyz"
If you don't want to have the big bad banhammer, which I understand because I used to moderate and I was administrator for about 6 years until I stopped. So if you do not want to have the big ban hammer all the time, have a warning system. It is not much more work, but it will help the forum and the peace here.
Sure in that case the admins have a day or two of work to form some moderation guidelines, but guess what, it pays out!
I feel like I have to say these things before I leave.

------------- small rant over, continue here if you skipped the rant ------------


I still love this forum, I am still coming back every day to check pms and to see if things have changed magically.
I am probably not gone forever, but I very much need a huge break, because I can not keep watching and not be able to help.
I sent out a few pms, to keep in touch with some of you.
If I forgot someone, I am very sorry, it is not on purpose. So if I forgot someone who wants to stay in touch, please feel free to message me here, I will give you my facebook and email.

Thanks everyone, you helped me over a lot of things in my life (and that in only one year). I am very thankful for having had my opinions challanged, for having learnt a lot here, for having found some really good new friends, and for all the fun I had here!


cheers *raising a pint of cider*
Leela


@ the forum team: I am still open to help you guys adjusting this place to it's growth. If you would like my input, please get in touch. I will not join your team, but I am willing to help anyway, because I do have the experience with moderating and administrating places of this size and a lot bigger.

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Leela's post
05-01-2013, 11:02 AM
RE: over and out
Okay, that's it. I'm catching the next train over there and am kicking your... well, you know... The only place you'll be going is here, for a vacation and to see me.
Seriously, you know how I feel, so I'll let the others do the serious talking. All I have to say is [Image: beg.gif]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vera's post
05-01-2013, 11:03 AM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2013 11:06 AM by FSM_scot.)
RE: over and out
There has been a change in the FT and the direction of the forum will be something that will be getting discussed. Including the rules. Other things are still being sorted at the minute. But the rules and direction are next on the agenda.

I hope you stick around.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: over and out
Hope I see you around

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2013, 11:11 AM
RE: over and out
I respect your decision to go, but you're welcome to come back any time you wish. I'll miss you, and the photo updates of your doggie.

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2013, 11:12 AM
RE: over and out
I can't disagree more. There have been a few times on here that I have been in a bad mood and people thought that I might be a troll. I think it is due to my opinions on certain subjects on some days that people thought this. I was called out on it. as far as I have noticed on this forum, there are only about 10 to 15 highly active posters on here. The trolls are spotted real quick and called on it. I have seen a few get banned, but I am not counting and I don't really care. I am really difficult to offend and I avoid trolls that can't be reasoned with. Either I stop reading what they post, or I read it when I am in the mood for a good laugh.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Birdguy1979's post
05-01-2013, 12:02 PM
RE: over and out
Will miss you on here...hope things calm down so all of us can be comfortable here again.

A

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2013, 12:20 PM
RE: over and out
I feel the same as you, Leela, especially in view of the recent attempted suicide Seth talked about on FB.

I like a lot of the people here though, and find it is stimulating for my thinking to be here. Sometimes even reading total rubbish can trigger something useful in my head. And I love the humor.

So my decision was to stay and see how it all pans out. The forum just had a melt down. It takes time to reorganize.

I am moderator also on a couple of huge professional forums, but it is a very different thing to run a professional forum. It needs to be structured totally differently, and I wouldn't even like their rules over here at all.

Forums should reflect the needs of their members, and new members should feel welcome. And everyone should be able to feel safe speaking up. There are some real crazy people out there, and there is a chance that one of them flips out and comes after you if you speak out against them. I have bitten my tongue because of that a few times here. If I have to bite my tongue because I fear for my safety if I speak up, that is not free speech for me, just for the possible crazy.

So it's complicated, and I am going to stick around to see how it all comes out.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Dom's post
05-01-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: over and out
(05-01-2013 10:50 AM)Leela Wrote:  A few of you may have noticed that I got pretty quiet here during the last week or so.

Recent events (in addition to past events) concerning trolling, forum rules, and moderation have brought me to the conclusion that this is not a place for me anymore.

------------- small rant, skip if you are tired of this topic -----------------------

I want to point out a few last things:

I came here a year ago. That was shortly after I had discovered TTA on youtube and listened to all his podcasts. I checked out the website and found that there was a forum as well. I like forums in general so I decided to look. After a few days of reading as a guest I decided to register and become a part of the community.
I learnt to love this place for it's opennes. Because you are being warmly welcomed without judgement.
If you behave like a dick you are treated like one. That's fair.
But the opposite is not happening anymore. If you behave nicely you are not being treated nicely. This became very clear to me when I started to offer help.
First time was with some weird troll whose name I forgot, but I posted in a thread that was about him, how I felt about trolls and a lot of hints and good tips on how to deal with an increasing troll problem. I was being fought at that point. Not by the members but by moderators.
"Freedom of speech"
I kept trying to offer good tips, I adjusted my ideas to how this forum runs, but still I felt like I was talking to a wall. I approached three admins over the past year (yep that many).
The only one who reacted was Erxomai. I told him what my worries for this forum are and that I am very willing to help adjusting it to the huge growth. He adviced me to open a thread in the team forum (where is it by now?) so I could talk with the whole team about this. Again I basically talked to a wall.
"Freedom of speech"

my last post before this one here:
(31-12-2012 06:29 AM)Leela Wrote:  How comes that freedom of speech is more important for those who troll, and damage the forum?

I have no idea how there is even a discussion about people like that? How do you just hide behind "dealt with on a case by case basis"?? And then wait until valuable forum members leave.
You add one fucking rule "No bullying / harassment" and that is all you need to do.
This forum is getting too big to moderate itself and the rules and the moderation should adjust to that.
I know that moderating is a bitch and noone ever really says thank you, but you wouldn't be mod/admin if you wouldn't want to be that.
I have been mod and admin for many years, I put lots of time and effort in, and guess what, although there were always rules (not a so called case by case basis) about bullying and harassment in place, noone ever felt like there is no freedom of speech.

But yeah, keep the trolls and stop caring for those who are actually valuable for this place.

Over and out
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid229971

It is not about certain users. This time it was FZUMedia, before him it was Egor, before him it was someone else.
Regulary special trolls get special attention. Regulary forum members complain about how such people are being dealt with but is anything changing? No.

Isn't this place supposed to be for those who honestly want to talk, exchange ideas, and debate?

Please spare me the "it's not so easy to know who is an ignorant fuck and who is really a troll".
Don't tell me "it's just the holidays, people have too much time"
Do not dare and bring up fucking "Freedom of speech"

I can be a pretty ugly troll too, I chose not to. I have too much time, too, I do not go to a forum to be ugly there. And I am very much for Freedom of speech, but one's freedom stops where it collides with other's freedoms.
And some things are not open for interpretation. Look at Anjele's story. Sure she is back now as far as I get it, but I do completely understand her reaction, and I think the team did not react in a good way.

Yes, every newbie deserves a second chance. They might not know how things are working, yet. But a troll's freedom of speech should not outweigh the peace of a whole forum. It should not outweigh the word of valuable forum members. With valuable I mean people who contribute in a positive way to this forum. Look at people like A2, Dom, Girlyman, LadyJane, Vosur, and so on. (sorry if I did not mention you here, whoever thinks they are missing)

As this place is noticably growing very fast, rules and moderation have to adjust.
Freedom of speech can still be number one, but you can add one rule. The rule is there so you can point people who misbehave towards them "Look here, you agreed to this. Please don't xyz"
If you don't want to have the big bad banhammer, which I understand because I used to moderate and I was administrator for about 6 years until I stopped. So if you do not want to have the big ban hammer all the time, have a warning system. It is not much more work, but it will help the forum and the peace here.
Sure in that case the admins have a day or two of work to form some moderation guidelines, but guess what, it pays out!
I feel like I have to say these things before I leave.

------------- small rant over, continue here if you skipped the rant ------------


I still love this forum, I am still coming back every day to check pms and to see if things have changed magically.
I am probably not gone forever, but I very much need a huge break, because I can not keep watching and not be able to help.
I sent out a few pms, to keep in touch with some of you.
If I forgot someone, I am very sorry, it is not on purpose. So if I forgot someone who wants to stay in touch, please feel free to message me here, I will give you my facebook and email.

Thanks everyone, you helped me over a lot of things in my life (and that in only one year). I am very thankful for having had my opinions challanged, for having learnt a lot here, for having found some really good new friends, and for all the fun I had here!


cheers *raising a pint of cider*
Leela


@ the forum team: I am still open to help you guys adjusting this place to it's growth. If you would like my input, please get in touch. I will not join your team, but I am willing to help anyway, because I do have the experience with moderating and administrating places of this size and a lot bigger.
No need to beat around the bush Leela. If you want to tell me "fuck you", or anyone else for that matter, have the guts to do it to my face. You, like so many others, decided to change this forum to fit your needs, instead of either adjusting to the forum, or finding a different forum that suited you better. You have spouted off so many times about your "experience" as a mod and admin. you seem to think it's relevant everywhere you go, but it isn't.

So congratulations. Not only have you and your posse changed the forum, but you've alienated a whole lotta people in the process. You talk about how horrible bullies are. Well guess what...bullies go to places and force those places to change for their own selfish reasons. They decide that the places they go to should conform to their ideals, otherwise they are oppressive. That's bullshit, but it's bullshit that bullies pull all the time. Maybe next time you'll think of that before expecting something to change for selfish reasons.

You, Leela, are a bully. You are precisely the thing you complain about.

And one more thing......I will continue to support free speech no matter how much you try and belittle the idea. You really disappoint me.

Just visiting.

-SR
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Stark Raving's post
05-01-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: over and out
Hang in there Leela - like Dom said, we just had a forum meltdown - we'll all need a chance to start breathing clear air again. Maybe you just need a break - I've gone through the same thing a couple of times and a break really helped.

Your ideas and perspective are valuable here - you inspire so many people - especially people who still have trouble breaking away from the supernatural. Your expertise is quite unique and I always enjoy your posts and how people react to them.

I hope you stick around. Maybe if you come back after a vacation, you'll find things will have progress into a more comfortable atmosphere. I hope you can at least keep your account open and check back.

Whatever you decide for yourself... Heart I'm privileged to have met you. Shy

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: