"politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
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26-08-2012, 07:21 PM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(26-08-2012 04:33 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  be back latere I have something inportant to do.

I hope that it is to read a biology book.Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-08-2012, 08:03 PM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
night guys

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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27-08-2012, 06:28 PM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(26-08-2012 06:37 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 05:02 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  

That sounds like you are saying the majority of the world is westernized. I don't think most people would agree but it depends on what you are trying to mean saying "westernized". Or a lose use of the term, "makes up."

There are only a few countries/nations not recognized as nations under the UN.
Here is a Map of who is in the UN; can you see how many

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...ld.svg.png

The list of non members is about as slim as it gets: Palestine, Kosovo, The Vatican City, Taiwan, and the Western Sahara.

All that constitutes a western nation is that it adopts a number of western traditions. The primary one is considered to be democracy, while economy plays a large role in it as well.

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27-08-2012, 09:47 PM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(27-08-2012 06:28 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 06:37 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That sounds like you are saying the majority of the world is westernized. I don't think most people would agree but it depends on what you are trying to mean saying "westernized". Or a lose use of the term, "makes up."

There are only a few countries/nations not recognized as nations under the UN.
Here is a Map of who is in the UN; can you see how many

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...ld.svg.png

The list of non members is about as slim as it gets: Palestine, Kosovo, The Vatican City, Taiwan, and the Western Sahara.

All that constitutes a western nation is that it adopts a number of western traditions. The primary one is considered to be democracy, while economy plays a large role in it as well.

Then there just aren't many 'westernized' nations at all. You're definition is not very useful.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2012, 08:59 AM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(27-08-2012 09:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-08-2012 06:28 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  All that constitutes a western nation is that it adopts a number of western traditions. The primary one is considered to be democracy, while economy plays a large role in it as well.

Then there just aren't many 'westernized' nations at all. You're definition is not very useful.

I am saying the definition is pretty broad.

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28-08-2012, 09:05 AM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(28-08-2012 08:59 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-08-2012 09:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  Then there just aren't many 'westernized' nations at all. You're definition is not very useful.

I am saying the definition is pretty broad.

I should have said there aren't many non-westernized nations.
But the broad definition doesn't help us in any way; it doesn't provide any categorization.

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28-08-2012, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 28-08-2012 09:11 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(28-08-2012 09:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-08-2012 08:59 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I am saying the definition is pretty broad.

I should have said there aren't many non-westernized nations.
But the broad definition doesn't help us in any way; it doesn't provide any categorization.

Yes, and many politicians avoid using the terms "western" and "westernized". But what I said was correct, and that's why I don't understand what we are debating about. Democracy, an originally western idea, is currently one of the core values of the U.N. Among others that would be considered "western":

Quote:
  • Assisting parliaments to enhance the checks and balances that allow democracy to thrive.
  • Helping to strengthen the impartiality and effectiveness of national human rights machinery and judicial systems.
  • Helping to develop legislation and media capacities to ensure freedom of expression and access to information.
  • Providing electoral assistance and long-term support for electoral management bodies.
  • Promoting women’s participation in political and public life.

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28-08-2012, 09:30 AM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(28-08-2012 09:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(28-08-2012 09:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  I should have said there aren't many non-westernized nations.
But the broad definition doesn't help us in any way; it doesn't provide any categorization.

Yes, and many politicians avoid using the terms "western" and "westernized". But what I said was correct, and that's why I don't understand what we are debating about. Democracy, an originally western idea, is currently one of the core values of the U.N. Among others that would be considered "western":

Quote:
  • Assisting parliaments to enhance the checks and balances that allow democracy to thrive.
  • Helping to strengthen the impartiality and effectiveness of national human rights machinery and judicial systems.
  • Helping to develop legislation and media capacities to ensure freedom of expression and access to information.
  • Providing electoral assistance and long-term support for electoral management bodies.
  • Promoting women’s participation in political and public life.

I was disagreeing with your statement that the U.N. was made up of Western/Westernized nations. Now that I understand your definition, we don't actually disagree.

The U.N. does embody your list of "Western" beliefs/goals. But we could call them modern, or civilized, or humanist. To call them Western helps keep alive the concept of cultural imperialism by the West which leads to a lot of conflict.

I am a rational secular humanist. I don't care from where ideas originate. I don't understand the negative emotional reaction to ideas that are from a foreign source. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea.

I do understand that there is an emotional reaction to ideas that are different from the ideas that are in a society; people don't like change. I understand they don't want to be changed by others and view that as imperialism or some such.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(28-08-2012 09:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am a rational secular humanist. I don't care from where ideas originate. I don't understand the negative emotional reaction to ideas that are from a foreign source. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea.

I do understand that there is an emotional reaction to ideas that are different from the ideas that are in a society; people don't like change. I understand they don't want to be changed by others and view that as imperialism or some such.


I simply stated where the idea came from so that the name "western" made more sense. If it came from the east, I would say things are easternized. I don't care where it comes from either.

I believe that nations are vestigial appendages, and that borders are ridiculous and childish ways of saying, "You can't cross this line cuz I claimed this part of the room!" I hope I live and see the day where the majority of the world becomes united, even when there are conflicts.

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28-08-2012, 11:13 PM
RE: "politicaly" which hand do you think I should cut off
(26-08-2012 09:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  You do realise that universal health care is cheaper than your current system, right?

I don't buy it. There are a lot I reasons why our healthcare is so expensive and a universal state will not make it better.
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