problem of evil and suffering
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12-07-2015, 06:50 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2015 08:04 PM by nintendo2190.)
problem of evil and suffering
in bart herman's book god's problem he discussed the issue how why an all-powerful god allows suffering and FREE WILL is also examined. if god is all powerful, allknowing, and all loving , why did he create lucifer knowing that her would revolt and tempt eve into eating the apple and then sacrificing his son. thats not very loving to me remember its not free will. why didn't he just for give mankinds sins did he need to sacrifice his son? or why didn't he stop the earthquakes or tsunamis etc. why didn't got cure all disease. ehrman maintains that free will cannot answer the question as to why god did not just forgive mankinds sins rather than having his son endure hardships and be crucified.

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Problem-Answe...ds+problem
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13-07-2015, 12:46 AM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
It's kind old problem seeing as Epicurus asked about this:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God

Religions with one god will struggle with it till the end of times. Better to go in footsteps of Zoroastrianism I think.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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13-07-2015, 04:28 AM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
God is man's invention to account for what people didn't understand -- and the devil was man's invention to explain the shortcomings of his prior invention......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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13-07-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
(12-07-2015 06:50 PM)nintendo2190 Wrote:  ehrman maintains that free will cannot answer the question as to why god did not just forgive mankinds sins rather than having his son endure hardships and be crucified.

It gets better than that. Most Christians believe in an eternal heaven where no one does anything wrong. That kind of ruins the whole idea of free will justifying suffering. They believe it's possible for there to be an existence without suffering and without bad choices being made, and this kills all of their free will apologetics. Either:

1) People have no choice to be bad and there is no free will, so the whole "God doesn't want robots" defense falls flat as he get robots for infinity years.

2) People can choose to be bad but they never do, so the whole free will thing is meaningless if "bad" choices are never made. They believe it's possible to have "choices" and for them to only be good, yet ignore that when justifying all of the bad stuff here with free will. It becomes completely pointless and any suffering and evil become unnecessary and gratuitous.

There's no magical third option.
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13-07-2015, 08:08 AM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2015 08:13 AM by pablo.)
RE: problem of evil and suffering
Back when people first invented god to control the masses, they weren't all that bright and they left gaps in their story.

As time rolled on, and people began to ask questions, the god consortium had to invent new answers to all these questions to cover the flaws.

This will probably continue until people quit asking the questions, because they realize god isn't real, and the answers don't matter.

No free will argument necessary.
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13-07-2015, 11:23 AM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2015 12:09 PM by Tonechaser77.)
RE: problem of evil and suffering
Ironically when one inserts 'god' into the equation of suffering, all sorts of answers emerge with each answer actually causing more questions. Ehrman addresses how biblical writers attempted to respond to this and he does a pretty good job.

Suffering, in many religious minds, links back to evil and there's an entire branch of theology (theodicy) that attempts to explain this away. Free will, love of particular persons, mysterious ways, and goddoneit, are just a few areas that religious people will throw at people in attempt to bring belief back in line.

However, when you view suffering outside of a system defined by god you basically come up with a simple answer. Suffering happens. Shit happens. But each of us is responsible for the private and the public meanings of our own lives, as far as we think we can control our fate and foresee the consequences of our actions. To confront human evil, to respond to human suffering—our own or others—and to cope with natural disasters, we’re on our own. We must deal with these afflictions individually and collectively. We can’t rely on supernatural powers to help us. In reality, many people think they can but they never have. This is why we have evolved thus far as a species, dependent on others to move us all forward.

**Crickets** -- God
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13-07-2015, 12:07 PM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
(13-07-2015 11:23 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  Suffering, in my religious minds, links back to evil and there's an entire branch of theology (theodicy) that attempts to explain this away. Free will, love of particular persons, mysterious ways, and goddoneit, are just a few areas that religious people will throw at people in attempt to bring belief back in line.

"theodicy"
Such an hilarious word.
A contraction ..
The idiocy of theology.

Laugh out load

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-07-2015, 12:08 PM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
(13-07-2015 11:23 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  However, when you view suffering outside of a system defined by god you basically come up with a simple answer. Suffering happens. Shit happens. But each of us is responsible for the private and the public meanings of our own lives, as far as we think we can control our fate and foresee the consequences of our actions. To confront human evil, to respond to human suffering—our own or others—and to cope with natural disasters, we’re on our own. We must deal with these afflictions individually and collectively. We can’t rely on supernatural powers to help us. In reality, many people think they can but they never have. This is why we have evolved thus far as a species, dependent on others to move us all forward.

Huzzah! Well said. Three extra LIKEs beyond what the button allows for! Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
Ehrman has made much progress from his early, fundie days. Perhaps some day he will grow to the point where he understands that it is all just a made-up pile of shit. He isn't there yet.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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13-07-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: problem of evil and suffering
And here's kind of another place where TTA members make no sense to my way of thinking. By staunchly rejecting substitutionary atonement from Jesus Christ (or anyone) and insisting MEN SHOULD PAY FOR THEIR OWN MORAL CRIMES while extolling the atheist authors who trumpet God is unjust when he punishes, they are utterly self-contradictory.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but this is the facts of the case. Atheists, be CONSISTENT. Please!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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