religion to science or science to region?
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23-11-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
(23-11-2013 05:47 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  I've always been fascinated with science and became a skeptic of religion at an early age. I was an atheist through my teens. I became enamored with Buddhism in my early twenties, but, still did not believe in a "creator". It gave me a strong lense with which to examine my thoughts and motivations and I still find many things philosophically useful. However, desiring to become more serious about my faith, I began reading deeper. I came across a passage about a forest of " wish granting trees". I instantly realized that Buddhism is just as dogmatic as any other religion. Shortly after that I discovered Hitchens then Harris and Dawkins. My love of science is stronger than ever and I am now a strong agnostic atheist.

I had a reverse take on your situation! Smile in my teens, I avidly researched religion to answer my own internal questions but have been heavily involved in martial arts most of my life. I rejected taoism, zen ideals and buddhism very quickly, within certain subcultures of MA, these belief systems are common place. I'm naturally suspicious of this sort of overtly, over open minded way of thinking. Like you though, I dd independent of their origins , appreciate a lot of the life lessons I encountered within them.

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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23-11-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
Well yeah... because Religion is never convincing when you want to understand the world around us,its just a bunch of stories riddled with the false pretense of being "divine" and "Unquestionable"

Well i for one call that BULLSH!T ! if God wants me to really believe in him and worship him maybe he should stop communicating to me through books that make fanfictions look good !
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23-11-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
(23-11-2013 04:22 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Well yeah... because Religion is never convincing when you want to understand the world around us,its just a bunch of stories riddled with the false pretense of being "divine" and "Unquestionable"

Well i for one call that BULLSH!T ! if God wants me to really believe in him and worship him maybe he should stop communicating to me through books that make fanfictions look good !

Haha, well said mate! Discounting the literature is easy though but what about people who hear the voices in their heads! Big Grin

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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23-11-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
(23-11-2013 04:13 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I rejected taoism, zen ideals and buddhism very quickly, within certain subcultures of MA, these belief systems are common place. I'm naturally suspicious of this sort of overtly, over open minded way of thinking.

One of the things about it that always bugged me ( and is true of almost all religions ) is the general theme that there is something inherently wrong with being human. It seems like all religions try to take all that's good about humanity away for humans and attribute it to something outside to degrade us, then offer it back like it's some kind of gift we can only get from them. What kept me with it was the feeling that my sense of being an observer seems so permanent. It was hard to let go of that even after I realized it's probably not true.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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23-11-2013, 05:56 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
I've always loved science from a young age, especially biology. I went through that transition-y phase where I kept telling myself that science and religion went hand-in-hand, but it's gotten to the point where I can't kid myself any longer.

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06-12-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
I was like the OP and was generally not interested in science when I was young, but now over the last 10 years or so, that changed. And eventually, the desire to believe lead to the desire to KNOW. I had doubts over the last few years of my Christian belief - which was, thankfully, not restrictive at all - and asking them in my own head before I finally saw Richard Dawkins on YouTube for the first time. I realized that I agreed with everything he said in his documentaries and interviews. Finally, I started calling myself an atheist.
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06-12-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
(23-11-2013 04:44 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 04:13 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I rejected taoism, zen ideals and buddhism very quickly, within certain subcultures of MA, these belief systems are common place. I'm naturally suspicious of this sort of overtly, over open minded way of thinking.

One of the things about it that always bugged me ( and is true of almost all religions ) is the general theme that there is something inherently wrong with being human. It seems like all religions try to take all that's good about humanity away for humans and attribute it to something outside to degrade us, then offer it back like it's some kind of gift we can only get from them. What kept me with it was the feeling that my sense of being an observer seems so permanent. It was hard to let go of that even after I realized it's probably not true.

It's took me agez to respond to your post. You hit a chord and I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Now I can. I think you're absolutely right and furthermore religion is the forerunner to corporations. ... Hitchens said, quite rightly, it (religion) was our first attempt at philosophy, science and education. I'd add corporate business to that too. It's spin doctoring at its finest! Smile

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06-12-2013, 07:11 PM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
(06-12-2013 06:47 PM)whitemoongurl Wrote:  I was like the OP and was generally not interested in science when I was young, but now over the last 10 years or so, that changed. And eventually, the desire to believe lead to the desire to KNOW. I had doubts over the last few years of my Christian belief - which was, thankfully, not restrictive at all - and asking them in my own head before I finally saw Richard Dawkins on YouTube for the first time. I realized that I agreed with everything he said in his documentaries and interviews. Finally, I started calling myself an atheist.

Snap Smile Dawkins (for the science part) switched me on too!

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07-12-2013, 12:02 AM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
I don't see the supernatural, all I see is explanations to things people don't understand. They are just explanations of what was there at the time without a firm understanding of what it actually is. Why does the brain think this? Dear god what is that thing? Was it always like that? Why why why why, we are forming a narrative to explain everything. We do this to this very day. You drive by a car crash, tell me what do you think? How did this happen, why? Was the driver drunk? Did he hit a magical rhino? Who the fuck knows, find out in the news later. You can't stop it, what ever conclusion we come up with we are satisfied until we're not. Changing adapting, amending exaggeration and finally shifting through all the crap to what actually happened or as close as we possibly get to the ultimate conclusion. Now if you don't evaluate any further not that far from the first claim, then what do you have? Also add make it very unpopular to criticize and in some cases even life threatening or just plain kill. If you dare say that magical rhino did not die for your sins and that the drunk driver has intentionally killed him and all decedents of the driver are guilty forever we will kill you or make your life noticeably unpleasant. Then come the defectors who form their own sect with new rules and interpretations and you go all around to crazy town. Also don't forget you must relate to a magical rhino even though we ourselves are not rhino's or magical plus you can't do anything whatever the driver did like be drunk or drive or some other nonsense made to suppress other human things we want to do or have little to no control over, can't drink even moderately so. Some sects are lacks, sure have a one beer but if you have one on Sunday we will kill you!

(Don't ask...my mind is just rambling with crazy. Short answer, I see the inherent storytelling process in all explanations of supernatural forces at work. Supernatural forces that are not above nature at all. It is nature.)
Maybe people hold the suspension of disbelief for far to long. It may last years or even decades or the final curtain call of death. I left that theater at 12. Then I came back into the B-movies trying to figure shit out but no more magical rhinos for me. Then I stopped punching in tickets all together. Time to make my own film of where I am the writer/director until ultimate mystery. I am in no hurry and will make sure every frame is beautiful.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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12-12-2013, 06:42 AM
RE: religion to science or science to region?
(07-12-2013 12:02 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I don't see the supernatural, all I see is explanations to things people don't understand. They are just explanations of what was there at the time without a firm understanding of what it actually is. Why does the brain think this? Dear god what is that thing? Was it always like that? Why why why why, we are forming a narrative to explain everything. We do this to this very day. You drive by a car crash, tell me what do you think? How did this happen, why? Was the driver drunk? Did he hit a magical rhino? Who the fuck knows, find out in the news later. You can't stop it, what ever conclusion we come up with we are satisfied until we're not. Changing adapting, amending exaggeration and finally shifting through all the crap to what actually happened or as close as we possibly get to the ultimate conclusion. Now if you don't evaluate any further not that far from the first claim, then what do you have? Also add make it very unpopular to criticize and in some cases even life threatening or just plain kill. If you dare say that magical rhino did not die for your sins and that the drunk driver has intentionally killed him and all decedents of the driver are guilty forever we will kill you or make your life noticeably unpleasant. Then come the defectors who form their own sect with new rules and interpretations and you go all around to crazy town. Also don't forget you must relate to a magical rhino even though we ourselves are not rhino's or magical plus you can't do anything whatever the driver did like be drunk or drive or some other nonsense made to suppress other human things we want to do or have little to no control over, can't drink even moderately so. Some sects are lacks, sure have a one beer but if you have one on Sunday we will kill you!

(Don't ask...my mind is just rambling with crazy. Short answer, I see the inherent storytelling process in all explanations of supernatural forces at work. Supernatural forces that are not above nature at all. It is nature.)
Maybe people hold the suspension of disbelief for far to long. It may last years or even decades or the final curtain call of death. I left that theater at 12. Then I came back into the B-movies trying to figure shit out but no more magical rhinos for me. Then I stopped punching in tickets all together. Time to make my own film of where I am the writer/director until ultimate mystery. I am in no hurry and will make sure every frame is beautiful.

Wow, this is simultaneously the most surreal and concise post I've seen for a long time anywhere Smile ... I look forward to hearing more about grizzlysnake vs the magical Rhino!

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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