report from Sweden
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09-03-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: report from Sweden
Firs off, I want to say I hate you(not really) I am a HUGE FAN of ABBA but dirt poor and hate flying, so unlikely I will ever get to visit their museum.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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09-03-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: report from Sweden
We're being invaded from the North!

Quick, everyone... man (and woman) the barricades, and help them across.

Welcome to TTA

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09-03-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: report from Sweden
(09-03-2015 05:43 AM)Salkinius Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 08:30 PM)DuffMan Wrote:  There hasn't been a reluctance to engage 'racists'. There has been a coordinated attempt against people talking about the social engineering that is going on in your country, and the problems it has created.

Also Sweden doesn't have the highest estimated rape in the world, so your citing material is defunct before I've even touched the meat behind it.
But this leads on to my next point, the crappiness of your citation material in it's very first line doesn't negate it making valid points later on, does it?

Like wise, being a racist doesn't mean they, your Swedish Nazi movement, don't have valid points and concerns that should be addressed.

Needless to say however, there would be a positive correlation between the gradual relaxation of Swedens immigration policy towards middle Eastern Muslims and your rape problem. Lets look it up.

And non-ethic Swedes? That's a new one, our media is still calling them "British Asian men from Pakistan" haha........... you cant tell me this is because of a change in your rape law.

[Image: sexbrott_75_11.jpg?w=720][/php]

Well, they don't have valid points. SD (Sverigedemokraterna/The Swedish democrats) almost always fall short with the statistics they base their political validity on. They are like every other christian you might debate in that aspect. They are cherry picking the sources like hell.

I still do believe that the high number of reported rapes in Sweden is more about the willingness of women to report the crimes than they did 40 years ago.

Between 2004 and 2011 reported rapes climbed with a staggering 170% A 170%!!! Do you really think that immigration is the most significant factor for this? No it's not. Its due to a changes in the law.

Well this is a bit off topic.

My understanding is that if a woman is raped several times by someone in Sweden each rape incident is counted, whereas in the United States, if a woman is raped many times by one person they only count the once incident of rape that is the easiest to prosecute and get a successful conviction.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I read several months ago.

By the way, your English is wonderful. Thank you for speaking our language.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-03-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: report from Sweden
Just realized I didn't say hello!

Hi! Welcome to TTA!

American Christians can be very "in your face" (public) about their viewpoints, so yes, I'd say there is more opportunity for debate. The fundies have a bit if a martyr complex and claim Christians are being oppressed when anyone speaks out against their privilege. :rollseyes:

Have you heard of the Freedom From Religion Foundation? It's an American non-profit. Might be of interest for Swedes to start something similar...

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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09-03-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: report from Sweden
Hi Salkinius! I'll send Brian37 a postcard from the ABBA museum - since I have no problem with flying and would love to visit Sweden! . Wink

I've become quite smitten with Sweden, actually; new IKEA store opened in my area; LOVE Stieg Larsson's Millennium Trilogy; and you guys have always seemed to share a fair appreciation of Jazz. What's not to like? (We won't think about the cold. Dodgy )

Welcome to the forum. Smile

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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09-03-2015, 12:31 PM
RE: report from Sweden
Thank you all once again for the welcome.

Yes, multiple rapes are prosecuted one by one.

I'm sorry to say that I haven't been to the ABBA museum. But I've met and talked to Benny... or was it Björn. Never can tell them apart. He was a very nice and humble guy through and through. He made the music to a stage performance at the theatre I was working at a couple of years ago. I just checked... it was Benny.

I love jazz... have you listened to Jan Johansson - Visa från Utanmyra?
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10-03-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: report from Sweden
Welcome. My maternal grandparents were Swedish (they immigrated to the US around the turn of the 20th century) so I am 50% Swedish blood. Hope to visit Sweden one day and perhaps even look up some relatives; it's on my bucket list.

I think that the situation you describe that you grew up with was fine. If religion is kept separate from political and social life, it can be regarded as private. It is just as impertinent to discuss someone's religious beliefs, unasked for, as it is to discuss one's sexual practices and preferences.

The problem, as you're discovering, occurs when groups begin to rise in influence who have theocratic impulses and start to impose their religiously-based practices on others. Now you have a situation where secular society is minding religious boundaries, but religious people are not minding secular boundaries.

Maybe the way forward is for people to get used to discussing the proper basis for societal decisions about law, morality, finance, public policy, etc. The proper basis would be factual / empirical / substantiated with actual data. It would not be based on asserted commands of invisible beings. Although here in the US the debate may seem about the merits of religion, it's really fundamentally about keeping magical thinking out of the public sphere. Particularly since there are different and conflicting forms of magical thinking coming from different religions and different sects / denominations within them.

The US was largely settled by religious conservatives who left real and imagined persecution and restriction in the countries they emigrated from with the intent to establish a society more to their liking. This resulted, in many areas, especially the northeast, in culture based on certain strident interpretations of Biblical morality and practice. Fortunately most of the founders of the country itself were Deists, which was a tempering influence that was able to establish, at least on paper, that we are a secular society that favors no religion over another. But at the same time we were neither racially nor religiously diverse, and over time, so-called WASP (White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) culture dominated and protestants developed the conceit that theirs was a "Christian nation" that needed to defend against Roman Catholic, much less non-Christian, influences. Eventually we got a revered / respected Catholic president (Kennedy) and various other taboos began to fall, and today even conservative states are, if only by judicial fiat at times, permitting gay marriage equality, etc. It's a process.

For better or worse, Swedish society is coming belatedly to some of these same conflicts, and your historic respect for separation of religious life from public policy is both the good and the bad news in that regard. The key difference from my outside perspective is that you are able to start the debate, not from a false stance of "defending traditional Christian values" against secular encroachment, but from an honest stance of defending secular society from religious encroachment. The impetus may be theocratic religions that are attempting to change Swedish society to suit themselves, but you may find along the way that you encounter some uncomfortable truths about how you may have been favoring the Church of Sweden simply because for a long time most Swedes were Lutheran. You have a sort of halfway "state religion" which may need to suffer some loss of hegemony along with the more egregious offenders against secularist ideals. That is unavoidable and ultimately a positive thing.
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