secular religion
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27-05-2013, 03:50 AM
secular religion
I have nothing against faith. I myself believe in a divine father like being, although my views are always evolving. I have nothing even against organized religion per se although that is quite a different matter. I see organized religion as being primarily to do with man's communal tribal nature, and the religion serves as a common bond. Most modern religions are universalist- that is all are welcome to join, but some are ethnocentric. Anyway as long as organized religion doesn't cause problems in society, I have no real problem with it. After all, we are not communists. However, I have always had a problem with hypocrisy as well as denialism.

Side by side with religion is ideology. In fact I really hate all ideology. Ideology can serve as a tool or a weapon for governing or leading the masses, giving them something either to rally behind or fight against, but ideologies basically fix the thoughts in a certain direction and lock them in a box. No free thinker has anything to do with an ideology, with any -ism. that said, people can believe what they want, and some do- almost religiously, but I hate hypocrisy, and I like free inquiry in the quest for truth, I like open societies with freedom of speech and freedom of thought, and I like a press which can ask tough questions of all people and views, and not shirk or shrink or defer to certain ones.

A great modern secular ideology exits- the name of it's defense is political correctness, and it has bodies to enforce this, including the SPLC and ADL and even law of the land in many countries. We can neither question official versions of history, nor can we tackle certain legitimate scientific topics. If we are not arrested or jailed, or fined, we may lose our jobs or careers or suffer defamation and accusation. It is clear to me that there exists a cryptic religion or ideology in the western world.

We are supposed to believe certain things as to this religious like ideology. We must believe in racial egalitarianism, in the official narrative of world war II, in "diversity is our strength", in the absolute superiority of "democracy" as a system of governing, etc. We need to all learn to respect if not the others point of view, then the right for them to hold such a view and present it to the public otherwise they are either communist pigs or priests of the new age religion.

This makes my brain feel good, just typing this, like I have a neurochemical shower.

Nobody has anything to fear from truth. If they do, what kind of person are they???? What kind of person fears the truth? And if they don't fear the truth, why do they fear open discussion? What kind of snake fears open discussion?
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27-05-2013, 04:18 AM
RE: secular religion
(27-05-2013 03:50 AM)viking Wrote:  I have nothing against faith. I myself believe in a divine father like being, although my views are always evolving. I have nothing even against organized religion per se although that is quite a different matter. I see organized religion as being primarily to do with man's communal tribal nature, and the religion serves as a common bond. Most modern religions are universalist- that is all are welcome to join, but some are ethnocentric. Anyway as long as organized religion doesn't cause problems in society, I have no real problem with it. After all, we are not communists. However, I have always had a problem with hypocrisy as well as denialism.

Side by side with religion is ideology. In fact I really hate all ideology. Ideology can serve as a tool or a weapon for governing or leading the masses, giving them something either to rally behind or fight against, but ideologies basically fix the thoughts in a certain direction and lock them in a box. No free thinker has anything to do with an ideology, with any -ism. that said, people can believe what they want, and some do- almost religiously, but I hate hypocrisy, and I like free inquiry in the quest for truth, I like open societies with freedom of speech and freedom of thought, and I like a press which can ask tough questions of all people and views, and not shirk or shrink or defer to certain ones.

A great modern secular ideology exits- the name of it's defense is political correctness, and it has bodies to enforce this, including the SPLC and ADL and even law of the land in many countries. We can neither question official versions of history, nor can we tackle certain legitimate scientific topics. If we are not arrested or jailed, or fined, we may lose our jobs or careers or suffer defamation and accusation. It is clear to me that there exists a cryptic religion or ideology in the western world.

We are supposed to believe certain things as to this religious like ideology. We must believe in racial egalitarianism, in the official narrative of world war II, in "diversity is our strength", in the absolute superiority of "democracy" as a system of governing, etc. We need to all learn to respect if not the others point of view, then the right for them to hold such a view and present it to the public otherwise they are either communist pigs or priests of the new age religion.

This makes my brain feel good, just typing this, like I have a neurochemical shower.

Nobody has anything to fear from truth. If they do, what kind of person are they???? What kind of person fears the truth? And if they don't fear the truth, why do they fear open discussion? What kind of snake fears open discussion?

I think the phrase communist pigs is wrong, You either don't understand communism or you are talking about Stalins version of communism. Wink
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27-05-2013, 07:34 AM
RE: secular religion
I think societies need at least some common core values to function, to get people together, to make laws, etc. The Founding Fathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence that we hold these truths to be self-evident, you know the rest. Of course it was a couple of centuries before we actually carried out the all men (people) are created equal part of it.

The PC watchdogs do go too far sometimes. There is an example of that going on in my area news right now. We do need truth and free inquiry to make sure PC-ness itself does not become oppressive. Some argue it already has...
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27-05-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: secular religion
(27-05-2013 03:50 AM)viking Wrote:  Nobody has anything to fear from truth. If they do, what kind of person are they???? What kind of person fears the truth? And if they don't fear the truth, why do they fear open discussion? What kind of snake fears open discussion?

Actually, there are people who have a lot to fear from truth. Evil doers/abusers and the indoctrinated/abused both fear truth, albeit for differing reasons.

The aforementioned fear truth because it will expose them. The latter fear it because it will expose to them that they have lived a lie.

To get a sense of just how many people there are who do fear truth, one needs only to look at the euphemisms we create to hide the truth from ourselves.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-05-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: secular religion
(27-05-2013 07:34 AM)cjs Wrote:  The Founding Fathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence that we hold these truths

We? Who are "we"?

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27-05-2013, 09:37 AM
RE: secular religion
It sounds like what you're questioning is the benefit of patriotism -- or perhaps that's just my own projection onto your words. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion mentioned patriotism as the only secular dogmatism he could come up with ("It doesn't get more dogmatic than 'my country, right or wrong'"). And as freethinkers, we ought to discourage dogmatism in any form, even a non-religious one.

I'm not a fan of patriotism myself. I've never been big on self-esteem, and it carries many dangers such as rationalizing anything as being alright so long as its outcome is in the egoist's favor. Being an American, I've seen so many evil things done in the name of patriotism (a high national self-esteem), as if it's okay to occupy foreign nations in the name of protecting our own. And don't even get me started on torturing war prisoners. If we wouldn't accept it as okay if a foreign country did it, isn't it against the golden rule for us to do it?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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27-05-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: secular religion
(27-05-2013 09:37 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  It sounds like what you're questioning is the benefit of patriotism -- or perhaps that's just my own projection onto your words. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion mentioned patriotism as the only secular dogmatism he could come up with ("It doesn't get more dogmatic than 'my country, right or wrong'"). And as freethinkers, we ought to discourage dogmatism in any form, even a non-religious one.

I'm not a fan of patriotism myself. I've never been big on self-esteem, and it carries many dangers such as rationalizing anything as being alright so long as its outcome is in the egoist's favor. Being an American, I've seen so many evil things done in the name of patriotism (a high national self-esteem), as if it's okay to occupy foreign nations in the name of protecting our own. And don't even get me started on torturing war prisoners. If we wouldn't accept it as okay if a foreign country did it, isn't it against the golden rule for us to do it?

Methinks you've fallen prey to the perverted definition of self esteem. People who rationalize abhorrent behavior do not have high self esteem. If they did, they wouldn't feel the need to base their identity on concepts such as god or country. Or "my sports team", etc...

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-05-2013, 11:22 AM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2013 11:25 AM by cjs.)
RE: secular religion
(27-05-2013 09:33 AM)KVron Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 07:34 AM)cjs Wrote:  The Founding Fathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence that we hold these truths

We? Who are "we"?

KVron, the "we" is directly written in there. I assume they meant they who wrote and/or signed the document. I should have put quotation marks around "we hold these truths to be self-evident," but got lazy. I also need to remember that not everyone here is in the US. Sorry.
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