seeing the person within the cage
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05-11-2011, 05:16 AM
seeing the person within the cage
I heard a radio program this morning talking about visiting North Korea as a tourist. Of course at some point the tourists had to bow their heads to the "Dear Leader". I immediately thought well I would refuse to bow my head to THAT evil monster. And then I realized that I would be with with guides who would suffer for my defiance, and that it would in that case be better if I had never travelled to North Korea in the first place. Indeed I shall not or for similar reasons to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Israel etc.

More deeply I realized that those guides live in a cage of circumstances and deserve nothing but our sympathy. My imagination then extended the image to all the religious people I know. I saw them walking round the world in their cages of religious upbringing and I saw that I owe them sympathy as well.
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05-11-2011, 07:00 AM
RE: seeing the person within the cage
Sympathy is good - so long as you don't let them put you in a cage --- out of concern for your everlasting soul.
Indeed, conflicting ideas of salvation is what creates most of these cages, both political and religious. If only we could let other people work it out for themselves!
Not going there is a terrific start!

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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05-11-2011, 12:30 PM
 
RE: seeing the person within the cage
(05-11-2011 05:16 AM)angry_liberal Wrote:  My imagination then extended the image to all the religious people I know. I saw them walking round the world in their cages of religious upbringing and I saw that I owe them sympathy as well.

And then, you can extend it even further and recognize the cages we build around our own minds when we shy away from thinking outside the box.

When we try to tweak the existing system, instead of thinking big and thinking brave -- instead of trying a human "Intelligent Design" that is sadly lacking from human reality.

Most people stop short, saying: "What's the use for thinking science fiction?" -- but without enough people doing exactly that, we will NEVER live our dreams.

Sad
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30-12-2011, 03:45 PM
RE: seeing the person within the cage
Just a question: How come you include Israel in the list of countries with dictatorship?

I know it's off topic, but I really want to know why everyone puts us and the arabs in the same category.

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30-12-2011, 05:28 PM
RE: seeing the person within the cage
It wasn't a list of dictatorships - it was a few examples of countries where a dominant mind-set prevails and suppresses all other kinds of thought. Chances are, any country at war would fit that description, at least while it's at war, even though it might be liberal, even progressive, in peacetime.
The problem with Israel - as it appears from far, far outside - is that it's been "at war" since its establishment, and the exclusive mind-set seems to have become dogma. The people are in mental cages and one government after another refuses to make peace or give up any of its insularity.
Not going there until they work this out for themselves sounds like a good idea.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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31-12-2011, 01:47 AM
RE: seeing the person within the cage
(30-12-2011 05:28 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  It wasn't a list of dictatorships - it was a few examples of countries where a dominant mind-set prevails and suppresses all other kinds of thought. Chances are, any country at war would fit that description, at least while it's at war, even though it might be liberal, even progressive, in peacetime.
The problem with Israel - as it appears from far, far outside - is that it's been "at war" since its establishment, and the exclusive mind-set seems to have become dogma. The people are in mental cages and one government after another refuses to make peace or give up any of its insularity.
Not going there until they work this out for themselves sounds like a good idea.
Just so you know, Israel is on the defense since it was established.
What are we supposed to do, let the arabs shoot at our cities and not do anything?

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believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
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13-01-2012, 08:57 PM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2012 09:02 PM by Azaraith.)
RE: seeing the person within the cage
(31-12-2011 01:47 AM)avrahams1 Wrote:  
(30-12-2011 05:28 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  It wasn't a list of dictatorships - it was a few examples of countries where a dominant mind-set prevails and suppresses all other kinds of thought. Chances are, any country at war would fit that description, at least while it's at war, even though it might be liberal, even progressive, in peacetime.
The problem with Israel - as it appears from far, far outside - is that it's been "at war" since its establishment, and the exclusive mind-set seems to have become dogma. The people are in mental cages and one government after another refuses to make peace or give up any of its insularity.
Not going there until they work this out for themselves sounds like a good idea.
Just so you know, Israel is on the defense since it was established.
What are we supposed to do, let the arabs shoot at our cities and not do anything?

Well, you did enter in and take that territory by force (in late 40s thru early 50s iirc) so you really are the original aggressor. An ancient claim to the land is no excuse, either - if so, there were people qho had it even before the ancient Israelites and would have an even "better" claim...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

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13-01-2012, 11:31 PM
RE: seeing the person within the cage
(31-12-2011 01:47 AM)avrahams1 Wrote:  Just so you know, Israel is on the defense since it was established.

Yeah, i know. Used to be a minor sort of Zionist in my ignorant youth.
What Israel is on is not the defensive: it's been nothing but aggressive since 1947. Often by quite unsavoury methods.... terrorism, in fact. One might look to the biblical precedent, but it's unfortunately no more honourable.

Quote:What are we supposed to do, let the arabs shoot at our cities and not do anything?

That's Arabs, not arabs. Indicative of aforementioned mind-set. Your cities? How did those cities become the property of Russian and German immigrants? And why are the Arabs shooting at them? Perhaps they want their land back?
The US and Brits decided to set you down as their very own game-piece in the middle east. They poured in the money, political clout and military equipment; thought they would control you. Instead, your governments have led one American president after another by the nose. That's okay - they asked for it, are asking for it. When that changes, something new will happen.

I don't honestly care what. I no longer have any stake. All the same, staying away still sounds like good policy.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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