slaying christians in yahoo yet again
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24-04-2014, 03:47 PM
slaying christians in yahoo yet again
I like debating on yahoo, because the audience who watches the debate, isnt firmly camped on one side or another and I have a greater opportunity to plant seeds. I stumbled across two tools R U Rapture Ready and a alleged college professor who teaches christianity named John J. Here was our last couple of posts back and forth, quite funny, if not a bit pathetic.

First R U Rapture Ready.

So he was spam posting scriptures, so I waded in with.

Goodwithoutgod posts:
R U rapture ready

Goldilocks 3:14, Thou shalt not sleep in other people's beds.

if you are going to quote fairy tales, include them all.

R U Ready posts:
No Dude your Not Good without God All you will get is My Avatar
Jesus is Coming and Soon. (his avatar has a picture of a guy screaming in a river of fire)

Goodwithoutgod posts:
R U delusional, you may want to take a few theology classes. The hell you are talking about doesn't even exist in that capacity under Christian doctrine. hell is allegedly a place devoid of god, thus devoid of good, no fire, no pitchforks, no little demons running around, no eternity in pain...get some education you ignorant, misinformed delusional believer. Because I pity you, I will educate you on your own faith.

Source is Reason, Faith and Tradition by Martin C. Albl, Chapter 7 page 188 – describing hell.

"We begin with a reminder of limitations of our language. Since hell, according to Christian doctrine, is a supernatural reality, it can only be described in analogies. Holy Scripture teaches us the essence of hell in images. When it speaks of the fire of hell, it is not to be understood in a grossly realistic sense. The images of fire and pain were ways of expressing the essential Christian understanding of hell – that it is a separation from God. We may define heaven as simply being with God, and hell, and contrast, is simply being without God. It is thus an existence without goodness and without meaning."

So save your made up twisted image of hell for someone a bit less educated on theology than I. Funny how an Atheist knows more than you about your own faith isn't it? I know the abrahamic myth inside and out, and that is WHY I am an atheist.

R U Ready posts:
?Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
?Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
?Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.
?Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”
?Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”
?Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

Goodwithoutgod posts:
now research when those interpolations were added, research who wrote luke, and the path to the truth will begin to open for you...

Acts and luke had the same authors. NO, none of the authors of the gospels knew jesus.

Writings of the Gospels: Mark (60 to 75 CE), Matthew (80 to 90 CE), Luke (80 to 90 CE based on the Gospels of Mark), and John (80 to 110 CE) (Albl 283). I have shown before in various venues the issues with the Gospels, the fact that we don’t know who wrote the gospels, the community effort that put them together, and the fact that they don’t agree with one another, all of which make them a suspect source of empirical evidence. When one posits a super natural, extraordinary story, one requires extraordinary evidence....sadly it doesn't exist, except philosophically.

The Gospel of Matthew is generally believed to have been composed between 70 and 110, with most scholars preferring the period 80–90; a pre-70 date remains a minority view, but has been strongly supported. The anonymous author was probably a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, and the disciple Matthew was probably honored within his circle. The author drew on three main sources to compose his gospel: the Gospel of Mark; the hypothetical collection of sayings known as the Q source; and material unique to his own community, called "Special Matthew", or the M source. Note the part where I said...disciple matthew honored...and anonymous some research. Knowledge is power, and quite liberating.

The gospel of Mark; Most modern scholars reject the tradition which ascribes it to Mark the Evangelist, the companion of Peter, and regard it as the work of an unknown author working with various sources including collections of miracle stories, controversy stories, parables, and a passion narrative.

Luke: Tradition holds that the text was written by Luke the companion of Paul (named in Colossians 4:14). Many modern scholars reject this view, although the list of scholars maintaining authorship by Luke the physician is lengthy, and represents scholars from a wide range of theological opinion. According to Raymond E. Brown, opinion concerning Lukan authorship was ‘about evenly divided’ as of 1997.

John: The gospel identifies its author as "the disciple whom Jesus loved." Although the text does not name this disciple, by the beginning of the 2nd century, a tradition had begun to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus' innermost circle). Although some notable New Testament scholars affirm traditional Johannine scholarship, the majority do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it, and trace it instead to a "Johannine community" which traced its traditions to John.

Paul also NEVER met jesus. So once again, as I have asserted previously, all writers of jesus, never met him, and wrote these stories based on the oral retelling, of the oral retelling of heresay. Fact. I have a degree in theology for a be able to dismantle the myth.

R U Ready posts:
I will take Gods /Jsus own words Over yours or Any mans word Reality
When your in that fire you will belieieve,you won't be alone some of my own will be with you

Goodwithoutgod posts:
you really don't get it do you? You know "gods/jesus's" words from the bible. The bible was fabricated and written by people who didnt witness any of the events, it is all hearsay, thus you don't comprehend that the very scriptures you cling to like a 4 yo to a teddy bear are written by men...not jesus or god. jesus never wrote one single word. Fact.

You are clinging to a myth.

DroolingLaugh out load oh he probably doesn't even comprehend the horrendous ( i ) beating he just got. Now lets move onto John J "the professor", I will just post the last coupe of exchanges.

Goodwithoutgod posts:
Far be it from me to educate those who have been deluged with misinformation on the anthropocentric delusion of the faithful. It is a great show of hubris dont you think to posit one is the center of existence itself.

This is why it is called Chrisitan apologetics...believers have to constantly scramble to answer all of the errors, inconsistencies and out right lies of the bible...yet their religion is based on it. I always enjoy how they can wave aside one implausible story (great worldwide flood that never happened for example) as an allegory, and point to another scripture or story as a fact. Don't you find it kind of convenient that you can pick and choose which scriptures to believe, and which to wave aside as a parable? The problem this presents is then it is all subjective to being a parable, which it seems to be at best. I can speak at length on any part of the abrahamic myth, I simply chose this tiny slice of the myth to poke at today. Whether you wish to discuss the mythical fable called the bible, the bigfoot of the biblical era called jesus, or the existence of the creator, I am fluent in all of it.

Preconditions of intelligibility? Cosmological argument? Argument from design/complexity? etc etc, this is what I do. The educated believers typically quickly wave aside the majority of the bible as an allegory, what choice do they have? It doesnt take much pulling at the plethora of strings hanging off the story to make the whole thing unravel afterall.

With or without religion; evil people will inevitably do evil things, good people will do good things, and for good people to do really horrific things, requires religion....such is humanity. No where in that equation does religion make that reality any better,. Religion was our first attempt to explain the world around us, now we have science. Time to put the fairy tales and chicken bones away, they have outlived their questionable usefullness.

You know jesus is the son of god how? If this belief is based on a book that has been proven to be a forgery and compilation of lies and stories told and retold, with a sprinkling of actual historic events in a sad attempt to give it authenticity, then I submit to you that you dont know that jesus is the son of god.

What you mean to say is you hope there is a jesus son of god. Remove faith, the belief in something without evidence and put hope in its place, because that is all you have; hope based on a fabrication.

Faith is the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE.

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. All sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts.

John J posts:
@Good, Philopon6 and Origen7 draw from Phlegon's Olympiads (written A.D. 138) an account of the darkness of the crucifixion. Phlegon was a Greek astronomer. Origen's quote is the best documented and quite similar to Philopon's. That heathen author, in treating of the fourth year of the two hundred second Olympiad, which is supposed to be the year in which our Lord was crucified, tells us “That the greatest eclipse of the sun which was ever known to happened then; for the day was so turned into night that the stars in the heavens were seen.” To this account, Philopon adds that “this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar,” suggesting that a Roman account exists.

Justin Martyr also referred to The Acts of Pilate which was forged by the Jews to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Despite that, they bore witness that darkness did indeed accompany the crucifixion. In addition, In his Apologeticus,9 written about A.D. 197, Tertullian wrote: "… at that same moment, about noontide, the day was withdrawn; and they, who knew not that this was foretold concerning Christ, thought it was an eclipse. But this you have in your archives; you can read it there."

In my case, I don't hope there is a God. I know there is a God.

Goodwithoutgod posts:
John, sigh, I really hate having to educate people on their own faith. But I do enjoy it. Origen was born 185 CE and died 232 CE, thus he never witnessed any of this....more writings based on hearsay.

Philopon was born 490 CE and died 570 CE, thus HE never witnessed any of this, again, let me say it slower, based on hearsay.

Justin Martyr born 100 CE and died 165 CE, thus, yet again, never witnessed any of this, based, yet again, on oral retellings of legends and myths.

Tertulian born 160 get the point yet? As I said before, no one who wrote of jesus actually knew him, or was born after his death. Hearsay at its finest. Not one shred of physical proof exists for jesus. No, the turn was debunked awhile back, the latest attempt to authenticate this piece of toilet paper (2013) says it is fabric 280 to 220 CE. Pope Francis issued a carefully worded statement which urged the faithful to contemplate the shroud with awe, but "stopped firmly short of asserting its authenticity", as his predecessors had done before him.

You don't k now there is a god, you hope. Faith is a failed methodology for comprehending the world around us as it is based on belief without evidence. If there was evidence it would not require faith as it would be fact. This is why it isn't taught in school. If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth.

As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way.

I truly pity your future students, who will be led astray by yet another misguided, misinformed teacher who is manipulating "facts" to teach lies.

Laugh out load Smartass Drooling

so how did the spanking go?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-04-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: slaying christians in yahoo yet again
now this was a smack fest, not me trying to make an opportunity to teach anything, but enjoyable all the same. Blink

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-04-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: slaying christians in yahoo yet again
[Image: memetldr.jpg?resize=450%2C363]
Get some brevity man. Also more text features.

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