something that drives me crazy about theists
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08-05-2017, 07:37 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 06:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:I disagree. People praise god all the time for shit that god had nothing to do with. Yet, when shit goes wrong...it's your fault because you didn't pray hard enough or attend the right church or give enough to said church.

No main christian denomination holds that when shit goes wrong it's your fault. Because it pretty clear in the NT writings that this is not the case, I mean the central hero of Christianity, is a man for whom shit did go wrong, dying a brutal and humiliating death at the hands of the Romans. And whose early followers, leaders of it's early movement met grisly and tragic fates of their own.

It's pretty explicit that believers are not spared "shit going wrong" in this life, in fact it's almost guaranteed to go wrong for the believer.

Other religions may have a different outlook, but Christianity on the other hands leaves very little room for such a view.

You really need to get around more. Dodgy

Catholics told me that I didn't give enough, which is why I had problems.

Baptists told me that I needed to pray harder and implied I didn't pray the right way, because if I had, god would answered it.

Lutherans told me that I needed to attend their church.

I'm pretty sure all these religions are part of Christian faith. So please spare the disingenuous crap about Christians being different.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-05-2017, 07:42 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 07:29 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Christians cherry pick on that scale all the time. So much so that they don't even realize it when they do so. Do you not realize you also do this Tomasia? And some of the things you've said would require you to throw out most if not all the NT to remain logically consistent. Not joking go back through what you've said since you've been here and try and look a bit more closely, see if you can understand the problems with much of what you've said.

To a ciristian specifically cherry picking becomes second nature and extends far beyond religion. Why don't we go into ANY christian home and I'll show you. It's not hard to demonstrate.

No christians denominations do not cherry pick at the level where they annex the entire NT all together. Like I said your unlikely to find a christian denomination that claims that according to the NT when shit goes wrong, when tragedy, and misfortune falls on you, it's your fault. That prayer, being a better believer, etc would have saved you from life's calamities.

And I no don't cherry pick the Bible (an anthology of a variety of books, and writings spanning hundreds of years, representing the religious views of the writers and communities they were composed for) anymore so than I cherry pick Dostoesky, or any other work of literature, fictional, non-fiction, historical, etc... Any interoperation of a passage, verse, metaphor, story in regards to the Bible, I derived the same why I would derive it from any non-christian work, and defend it no differently.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-05-2017, 07:44 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 07:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(08-05-2017 06:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No main christian denomination holds that when shit goes wrong it's your fault. Because it pretty clear in the NT writings that this is not the case, I mean the central hero of Christianity, is a man for whom shit did go wrong, dying a brutal and humiliating death at the hands of the Romans. And whose early followers, leaders of it's early movement met grisly and tragic fates of their own.

It's pretty explicit that believers are not spared "shit going wrong" in this life, in fact it's almost guaranteed to go wrong for the believer.

Other religions may have a different outlook, but Christianity on the other hands leaves very little room for such a view.

You really need to get around more. Dodgy

Catholics told me that I didn't give enough, which is why I had problems.

Baptists told me that I needed to pray harder and implied I didn't pray the right way, because if I had, god would answered it.

Lutherans told me that I needed to attend their church.

I'm pretty sure all these religions are part of Christian faith. So please spare the disingenuous crap about Christians being different.

Nonononono.

#notallchristians.

SO LONG AS there's at least a small share that don't do it, you have to have to HAVE TO ignore that there's a large share that do!
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08-05-2017, 07:45 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 07:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-05-2017 07:29 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Christians cherry pick on that scale all the time. So much so that they don't even realize it when they do so. Do you not realize you also do this Tomasia? And some of the things you've said would require you to throw out most if not all the NT to remain logically consistent. Not joking go back through what you've said since you've been here and try and look a bit more closely, see if you can understand the problems with much of what you've said.

To a ciristian specifically cherry picking becomes second nature and extends far beyond religion. Why don't we go into ANY christian home and I'll show you. It's not hard to demonstrate.

No christians denominations do not cherry pick at the level where they annex the entire NT all together. Like I said your unlikely to find a christian denomination that claims that according to the NT when shit goes wrong, when tragedy, and misfortune falls on you, it's your fault. That prayer, being a better believer, etc would have saved you from life's calamities.

And I no don't cherry pick the Bible (an anthology of a variety of books, and writings spanning hundreds of years, representing the religious views of the writers and communities they were composed for) anymore so than I cherry pick Dostoesky, or any other work of literature, fictional, non-fiction, historical, etc... Any interoperation of a passage, verse, metaphor, story in regards to the Bible, I derived the same why I would derive it from any non-christian work, and defend it no differently.

Pat Robertson and others have claimed earthquakes were to blame for embracing secularism.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-05-2017, 07:56 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 06:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:I disagree. People praise god all the time for shit that god had nothing to do with. Yet, when shit goes wrong...it's your fault because you didn't pray hard enough or attend the right church or give enough to said church.

No main christian denomination holds that when shit goes wrong it's your fault. Because it pretty clear in the NT writings that this is not the case, I mean the central hero of Christianity, is a man for whom shit did go wrong, dying a brutal and humiliating death at the hands of the Romans. And whose early followers, leaders of it's early movement met grisly and tragic fates of their own.

It's pretty explicit that believers are not spared "shit going wrong" in this life, in fact it's almost guaranteed to go wrong for the believer.

Other religions may have a different outlook, but Christianity on the other hands leaves very little room for such a view.

> Nope! There's no justice in dying for the someone's else's sins. We're all responsible for our own actions, not those of others. Besides, the whole "forbidden fruit" story is a tale of injustice against the innocent, revealing a God who is criminally negligent.

> Evil can only exist in this world if your God is evil.
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08-05-2017, 08:08 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 06:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No main christian denomination holds that when shit goes wrong it's your fault.
It's fine that you disagree with this, and/or don't think the Bible teaches it. But I can testify from personal experience that in my denomination, there was a VERY heavy and obvious vibe that it was "all your fault somehow". People quickly got impatient with personal suffering (just as they do outside the church, to be fair; no one wants to hear about it beyond a pretty limited certain point). The difference within the church, in my experience, is rather than just backing away or spouting empty platitudes, they tended to play blame games. There was talk of secret sin, insufficient faith, "asking amiss" and the like. Sometimes obliquely, sometimes not so much.

Now your qualification that no "main denomination" holds this may be somewhat true, officially at least. But my little quasi-denomination (IFCA) taught very explicitly that god answers the prayers of the righteous, and they taught imprecatory and intercessory prayer as well as meditative prayer. The whole point of the former is to get your needs met. And they very much taught that god cares, watches over us, etc., so when he doesn't watch over us, it's to test us, punish us, etc.

So equivocate all you want, it's rampant in fundamentalism especially, and not unknown elsewhere in Christian precincts. Of course, it looks dickish to openly teach that (because it is), and so there are various semi-deniable circumlocutions; this stuff is not so much taught as it's insinuated. As one pastor I sat under admitted, "The church is the only army that shoots its own wounded".
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09-05-2017, 12:03 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
So many theists claim God is morally perfect. But when you point out the obvious problems with this claim, many sooner or later resort to Divine Command Theory. God can do whatever he wants and it is good because God does it, even if what happens is obviously not good or moral. God is in actuality amoral. Either God is moral or he isn't. Arguing God's immorality is acceptable is an argument that destroys the argument God is moral or good.

Theology then, is in the end, about saving appearances, not being logical or coherent.

If a theist argues for Divine Command Theory, that theist is admitting God is not moral or good. It's that simple, that stark. But no theist ever wants to argue why God is in the end, amoral. The moving of the goal posts.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

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09-05-2017, 01:11 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
You know what drives me crazy about theists.

You can't communicate with them, their minds are closed off. They have decided they have all the answers and they're gonna shove their dick down your throat too.... er... religion.... EITHER WAY it's not welcome, its not cute, and it's not cool. And no matter how innocent they pretend to be THEY ALL fucking do it. They dishonestly say they won't preach at you, then every fucking sentence try to make you feel guilty for not being like them, interjecting their religion into everything far more around you than they would if they didn't know you weren't like them. When you defend yourself, or confront them, no matter how accurate or logical you are they'll lie and twist and squirm and never be honest with you. ABOUT ANYTHING. I swear one of these days I'm gonna hear a theist say that their dog/cat whatever talks to them just because they wanna defend the idea of talking donkeys and snakes! It's not even far fetched look at people who claim to speak in tongues. The most christian group I've ever seen (according to adherence to the bible and it's "teachings") would prolly be the westboro baptist chuch. The christians who want people to think they AREN'T crazy however can't be nailed down on a single point of doctrine. Granted outside of the leadership no chrisitan has a fucking clue about ANY doctrine, they are so pathetically uneducated even in their own beliefs, and just make up shit or repeat shit they don't understand. HOW do you correct them when they are so willfully ignorant, how do you have ANY meaningful discussion with someone so brain dead? What do they really have to offer in any friendship? And why the fuck would anyone want to sound as stupid as they do?

The scary part is these people have guns. You simply can not trust a religious person not to kill you unless they think you are just like them. In the real world, in the long run that's the only answer they'll ever really have. Kill anyone not like them, every religion has done it, without exception. Every religion will come to that point again given enough time. For short periods of time maybe they can be ok, but eventually any real "believer" is going to become violent, and that's highly concerning. One day we need to learn to treat religion like the mental illness that it is. It's a brain virus. It's not harmless, it's not beneficial we all know this, hell even most religious folk know this, but then they try to separate. "No true christian" (insert alternate religion there) and yet the most violent crazy among them are the one's who always seem to be most in line with their ass backwards ancient texts, now the crazies ARE the true religious folks, and the one's who don't recognize that are the poor saps being sucked into a dangerous cult of personality.

And religion isn't the problem. It's a symptom. The real problem goes deeper than this. You can find it in any strong ideological position, including political ideologies. These fuckers that want to kill anyone different and want to force EVERYONE to be like them by any means necessary will always eventually resort to violence. Hell just trying to dominate other fucking humans like that isn't ok from the ground up, even without violence.

---------------------- On a slightly related topic I'm now going to shit on the other side....

Meh I wish there was a place I could live where I'd be safe, where I could have a job and a home and not be at risk of death, or homelessness or joblessness just cause I don't want to buy into Tomasia's specific brand of crazy asinine bullshit. A place where I could have friends, they wouldn't have to agree with me on everything, but they wouldn't be seeking to harm me either. That place doesn't exist, and I'm beginning to question why go online, bitch and complain when nothing is going to be solved. Why have imaginary friends on line, it's not much better than having an imaginary friend like jesus, I mean Ya'll are at least fucking real (most likely lol) but so what, talking here isn't going to make things safer, it's not going to fix problems, it's not going to offer a real community, one where I could like meet someone and hug them (that would be really nice...). Is the answer then to accept that there is no hope? No hope for a better world? No acceptance? Nothing worth living for?

Tomasia would insert his religious asinine bullshit here, however he'd be missing my fucking point entirely. And the fact that even when I point it out he's prolly not going to realize it is just sad.

We make this world what we want it to be, it's hopeless not because of some asshole god, but because none of us take the responsibility to make it better. Our pitiful efforts are so half assed, why do it at all. Why not admit we're a species of psychopaths that lack empathy in any capacity? I mean no one wants to admit it, but.... people are starving right now. I know I've not eaten in a few days, and there's people who got it far worse than me.

What the fuck are any of us even doing here huh? For reals? Isn't there something better we could be doing? for ourselves and each other, and for the diseased soulless fucks who jerk off to jesus?

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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09-05-2017, 01:12 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
Admittedly I'm hungry and pissy.... so don't mind me.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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09-05-2017, 01:23 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 07:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-05-2017 07:29 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Christians cherry pick on that scale all the time. So much so that they don't even realize it when they do so. Do you not realize you also do this Tomasia? And some of the things you've said would require you to throw out most if not all the NT to remain logically consistent. Not joking go back through what you've said since you've been here and try and look a bit more closely, see if you can understand the problems with much of what you've said.

To a ciristian specifically cherry picking becomes second nature and extends far beyond religion. Why don't we go into ANY christian home and I'll show you. It's not hard to demonstrate.

No christians denominations do not cherry pick at the level where they annex the entire NT all together. Like I said your unlikely to find a christian denomination that claims that according to the NT when shit goes wrong, when tragedy, and misfortune falls on you, it's your fault. That prayer, being a better believer, etc would have saved you from life's calamities.

And I no don't cherry pick the Bible (an anthology of a variety of books, and writings spanning hundreds of years, representing the religious views of the writers and communities they were composed for) anymore so than I cherry pick Dostoesky, or any other work of literature, fictional, non-fiction, historical, etc... Any interoperation of a passage, verse, metaphor, story in regards to the Bible, I derived the same why I would derive it from any non-christian work, and defend it no differently.

They really do, they just aren't intellectually honest enough, or educated enough to understand that they do in fact do that. We could take a survey of religious doctrine from the old and new testament and ask believers what they actually think about these things (without direct quotes from the bible so as to not give it away, we can show them the quotes AFTER we rub it in their fucking faces), and the amount of accepted doctrine from both the old and new would I bet be below 20% acceptance of the bible.

I'd really like to see this done, it would be fun and funny. And I bet you my instinct on this is correct. Tomasia you're fucking wrong, and you're evidence that you are fucking wrong here, lets just tally up all the asinine things you've said so far that contradict the bible, or hell the ones that contradict other things you yourself have said...

You are full of shit dude. We all know it, its kinda obvious to anyone who bothers to think.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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