something that drives me crazy about theists
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09-05-2017, 06:28 PM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(08-05-2017 12:35 PM)unfogged Wrote:  In many ways it looks like an abusive relationship

[Image: 42a475ee83cdb8581f22c2f6bca9741d.jpg]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^ yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-05-2017, 07:09 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(09-05-2017 08:25 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 07:00 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  But that's the thing, isn't it? You can point out that an idea isn't supported in the text or tenets, but others will find one of many vague references and, along with their personal relationship with god, say that their interpretation is the correct one. Neither can be proved wrong. We're just left to wonder how so many people with these relationships with god can have so many interpretations of the same idea. We're pretty sure we know the reason, tho.

No, you can prove them wrong, the same way we prove people wrong when they quote mine any other texts. The same way you can prove someone wrong who claims that the Origin of Species advocates genocide. Some passages may leave room for more than one reasonable interpretation, some leave little to no room for other interpretations, which can be easily disproven by the text in question.

No, you can't. Not in their minds. There have been a number of strange ideas believers have throw out that are quite fanciful. They didn't get them from the bible, they got them from their "relationship with jesus". They will never be wrong, because jesus told then so.
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10-05-2017, 07:10 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(09-05-2017 06:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 09:43 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  Actually no...you cannot "prove them wrong" because you are merely reading an interpretation that has gone through many, many revisions and has unknown origins and therefore you don't even really know the originals even may or may not have said. All you can do is give your own understanding of what you are reading, or what you've been taught about them.

Well, you can't offer an interpretation of a non-existent texts. Or the many revisions, etc... that don't exist. All interpretations are based on the available text, and what can be said about them. And just like interpretations of any other written source, passage, writings, can be reasonable, unreasonable, and easily disprovable interpretations.

If you can prove creationist "quote mined" Darwin, that their interpretations of a particular passage of his writings are wrong, then you can do so with other texts as well.

Unless it's the word of god.
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10-05-2017, 08:40 AM
RE: something that drives me crazy about theists
(09-05-2017 06:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 09:43 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  Actually no...you cannot "prove them wrong" because you are merely reading an interpretation that has gone through many, many revisions and has unknown origins and therefore you don't even really know the originals even may or may not have said. All you can do is give your own understanding of what you are reading, or what you've been taught about them.

Well, you can't offer an interpretation of a non-existent texts. Or the many revisions, etc... that don't exist. All interpretations are based on the available text, and what can be said about them. And just like interpretations of any other written source, passage, writings, can be reasonable, unreasonable, and easily disprovable interpretations.

If you can prove creationist "quote mined" Darwin, that their interpretations of a particular passage of his writings are wrong, then you can do so with other texts as well.

Creationists aren't "interpreting" Darwin, they are lifting one quote out of a paragraph, and almost all the cases the very objection is answered in the next paragraph (i.e. the eye quote mining).

Also, Darwin is the proven writer on his entire work, whereas the bible as a whole has many anonymous writers written across different time periods, so trying to check one scripture against another becomes more problematic because isn't clear what each scripture might mean; unless of course you force "necessary inference".
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