[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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02-10-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  If these shooters see a few mass shooters get taken out and their plans halted, this crap will most likely stop. Until then, they'll keep targeting "gun free zones."

Any would-be mass shooters who have actually been taken out? Given that AFAIK that is the strategy that the gun rights crowd seems to advocate, is there any evidence that it works?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-10-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 02:20 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Depends on where you live. Around here I could legally sell a gun I own to another private individual that is a resident of my state without any kind of paper work or background checks as long I I had no reason to believe they weren't allowed to own one or didn't plan on using it illegally.

It seems that it's the same here. Gun dealers have more rules but it seems you could buy a gun at a yard sale.

That is a bit unsettling.
Background checks on private sales are something many gun owners including myself wouldn't mind seeing.

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02-10-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 02:20 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Depends on where you live. Around here I could legally sell a gun I own to another private individual that is a resident of my state without any kind of paper work or background checks as long I I had no reason to believe they weren't allowed to own one or didn't plan on using it illegally.

It seems that it's the same here. Gun dealers have more rules but it seems you could buy a gun at a yard sale.

That is a bit unsettling.

That's *legally* - if you don't care about acquiring it legally, prob even easier.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-10-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Why Gun Control (the stuff they've tried so far) Does Not Work

Every decade or so - politicians will come up with a “latest and greatest” plan for gun control - that’s supposedly going to stem violence, end crime and make the whole world sunshine and rainbows. Somehow - it just never seems to work out that way.

There’s a really simple reason why all these wonderful laws haven’t worked.

Because these laws only affect the people who are not the problem - sane people, responsible people, people who exercise good judgement on a regular basis. People who follow the laws.

If you REALLY want to do the most that can be done - you need to work on the problem – the people who commit crimes with guns. Of course this is much harder to do than simply passing dumb laws that do nothing. Law abiding citizens line up, and do as they’re required. Criminals do not.

You don’t need gun control - you need people control.

It’s very simple to do the most that can be done – but nobody seems willing to try it. Why? I suppose that politicians like the continuing mayhem. It keeps people busy - so they’re not looking too closely at the actions of politicians.

1. Eliminate all current gun laws.
2. Anyone who is found guilty in a court of law of serious felonies - or judged to be incompetent by a court of law should be stripped of their right to own a firearm. (The Constitution does allow it – any right - including the right to life itself, can be taken away by a court of law)
3. Anyone who has their right to own firearms stripped from them - will be required to get a new state identification card that is clearly marked “Not allowed to own or possess firearms” – under penalty of law - and felony charges - if a person does not comply.
4. All sales of firearms shall require a show of state identification. Penalties for not complying.
5. Anyone who knowingly sells a firearm to a person stripped of the right to own one, shall be guilty of a felony. Penalties apply.

That’s it – you’ve done everything that can humanly be done.

Other than fully banning firearms.

Would that work???

Did alcohol prohibition work? Is it impossible to get heroin, cocaine or other illegal drugs?

Does jailing the users of those drugs make the problem go away?

It sure doesn't look like it to me.

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02-10-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:27 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 02:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Hunters normally use revolvers, bolt action rifles, lever action rifles and shotguns. Automatic weapons are already illegal. This shooter probably used semi-auto handguns that are standard capacity 10-15 bullets. Oregon has background checks on ALL sales, including private sales. Since he is over 21 and no criminal record, he is legal to buy.

I don't have a solution. The only thing I can suggest, since guns are here to stay, is buy your own gun, get a concealed pistol license (if you live in a state that issues them) and protect yourself. If these shooters see a few mass shooters get taken out and their plans halted, this crap will most likely stop. Until then, they'll keep targeting "gun free zones."

Automatic weapons are not illegal in many states.

Correct technically. But they're very hard to come by, are very difficult to get approved for, and they are illegal to produce now. To get one, you'd have to find someone that is willing to part with one and go through the rigorous steps to acquire it.
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02-10-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable
(02-10-2015 11:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 11:39 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Like it doesn't happen every time with everybody? There ain't no "news" that ain't a platform for somebody. Dodgy

My post focuses on a broken system that allows things like the events of yesterday to happen. At no point is my post about what to do about it. It is not about what to do with guns or gun laws or gun regulations or licensing or anything. I simply stated facts, provided links to articles, and provided statistics showing just how fucked up events like yesterday are.

What Adrianime said.

You're being disingenuous... yet another adjective to add to your repertoire.

You were black-and-white wrong, but you can't accept it, so you have to spin some BS "Whatever do you mean? You're reading it wrong," about your post... it's so egregious that it's nearly comical.

(02-10-2015 11:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Yes, I am the one who thinks they are the infallible and the narcissist. [/sarcasmfont]

Yes, yes you are as your past behavior has demonstrated. And your implications that I think I'm infallible are ridiculous (most anyone on this forum can attest to that... even Chas); although, the implication that I am narcissistic is true... to a point anyway... but who isn't? However, my narcissism doesn't trump my considerations or behavior.

I regularly admit fault and am open to other point of views and even open to change mine.

As demonstrated, you cannot admit fault, even when it's blatant, or be open to possible differing opinions; moreover, you are an admitted bigot, for no other reason than someone disagreeing with how you think.

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02-10-2015, 02:37 PM
Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:26 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 02:18 PM)morondog Wrote:  Ban weapons with large magazines, ban automatic weapons? I know that hunters like them but... is hunting sufficient justification to keep them? Sounds extreme, but... might be worth considering extreme measures.

Yes, the ban will not prevent a determined criminal from obtaining such things, but it might prevent means and opportunity from being available to a large number of less determined crack-pots who would be forced to settle for something less spectacular as a means of expressing their dissatisfaction...

Define automatic weapon. I ask because private ownership real automatic weapons has been heavily regulated since 1934. Since that time there has only been one murder conviction of an individual (an Ohio police officer) for using a legally owned automatic weapon to to commit the murder. The regulations that control private ownership of automatic weapons seem to be working just fine.

What I mean is something that makes it easy to squeeze off a lot of bullets in a short space of time. Just seems... that without that ability a large class of mass-shooters might be a lot less lethal.

Disclaimer: I'm not knowledgeable about guns.

You always hear the example of Australia being brought up in these debates. What is different about their gun laws, which seem to be effective, and what prevents them being introduced into the US?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-10-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 02:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  If these shooters see a few mass shooters get taken out and their plans halted, this crap will most likely stop. Until then, they'll keep targeting "gun free zones."

Any would-be mass shooters who have actually been taken out? Given that AFAIK that is the strategy that the gun rights crowd seems to advocate, is there any evidence that it works?

I've seen a few instances where an active shooter was stopped. Just recently an Uber driver stopped a shooting.

The problem is, these mass shootings usually happen where people can't bring their guns. Movie theaters, churches, schools, even Starbucks bans guns. I imagine there's a reason mass shooters don't try to shoot up police stations, gun stores, NRA meetings, shooting ranges. Risk of being shot and stopped is too high.
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02-10-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:37 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-10-2015 02:26 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Define automatic weapon. I ask because private ownership real automatic weapons has been heavily regulated since 1934. Since that time there has only been one murder conviction of an individual (an Ohio police officer) for using a legally owned automatic weapon to to commit the murder. The regulations that control private ownership of automatic weapons seem to be working just fine.

What I mean is something that makes it easy to squeeze off a lot of bullets in a short space of time. Just seems... that without that ability a large class of mass-shooters might be a lot less lethal.

Disclaimer: I'm not knowledgeable about guns.

You always hear the example of Australia being brought up in these debates. What is different about their gun laws, which seem to be effective, and what prevents them being introduced into the US?
Australia does not share borders with any other countries that can smuggle them in. Their population is small. Their guns were never protected by a Constitution.
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02-10-2015, 02:43 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(02-10-2015 02:34 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You don’t need gun control - you need people control.

Yes I agree actually with this. We need to improve our mental health, education and a host of other things.


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