[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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03-10-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:44 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:34 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  At what point did I ever imply that the cop should leave the gun outside?

The police officer who is trained to use the gun and has it on his/her persons, is not the same as an accessible gun in a classroom.

Police officers can and should be trained to not only be more competent with a gun, but trained to better understand when and how a gun should be employed. Unless you want cops teaching the classes, the teachers should not have guns.

I would want a similar program that allows pilots to carry guns. It's optional for them and they have to receive training to participate. IMO teachers should have the option so long as they receive training. They could carry the gun in the same way police officers do. The gun wouldn't have to be "accessible" to everyone. That would be stupid in a classroom full of children.

Air marshals. There, problem solved. No need to make pilots carry guns, and you now have someone trained to only be a safety officer on the plane.

Any gun you put in a classroom that is accessible enough for self defense, is accessible enough to be used inappropriately. If a bunson burner in a chemistry classroom is used inappropriately, someone gets burned. But if a gun is used irresponsibly, what would be the potential outcome? <- that is why more guns in classrooms, is the exact opposite of a rational and reasonable response.

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03-10-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:30 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm glad we have an understanding.

You don't seem to understand the sarcastic reply to the ignorant straw man you made. I'll make note of that and be more explicit in calling out the stupidity next time.

(As my own sarcasm flies right over your head)

I'll rejoin the conversation with more seriousness later when I can get on a real keyboard. Until then, yes, please use crayon for me. Preferably green.

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03-10-2015, 04:48 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:47 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You don't seem to understand the sarcastic reply to the ignorant straw man you made. I'll make note of that and be more explicit in calling out the stupidity next time.

(As my own sarcasm flies right over your head)

I'll rejoin the conversation with more seriousness later when I can get on a real keyboard. Until then, yes, please use crayon for me. Preferably green.

[Image: 52mega0012_green.jpg?sw=1200&amp;sh=...p;sfrm=jpg]

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03-10-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:43 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:41 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  This is a funny picture! Shy

[Image: panties-in-a-bunch-3.jpg]

That is all.

Sometimes one's panties are in a wad for justifiable reasons. Drinking Beverage

True, but how many times can a grown man (or woman) reiterate that point before it begins to look like a spat between petulant children? This already split thread about gun control has just educated me that Anjele's supposedly a bitch, and TheBeardedDude is a supposedly, justifiably, whiny asshole! Dodgy

[Image: 36672a4.jpg]

Watch! By the time my 2-finger typing ass posts this, the convo will be back on nothing but guns! Facepalm

Tongue

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03-10-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:04 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:43 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Sometimes one's panties are in a wad for justifiable reasons. Drinking Beverage

True, but how many times can a grown man (or woman) reiterate that point before it begins to look like a spat between petulant children? This already split thread about gun control has just educated me that Anjele's supposedly a bitch, and TheBeardedDude is a supposedly, justifiably, whiny asshole! Dodgy

[Image: 36672a4.jpg]

Watch! By the time my 2-finger typing ass posts this, the convo will be back on nothing but guns! Facepalm

Tongue

If being considered a "whiny asshole" is the only way to point out to someone that they said/implied/asked a shitty question that they had no justifiable reason for, then I guess I am a whiny asshole. Drinking Beverage

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03-10-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Wake up call the alarm has been ringing for way to long. Stop hitting the snooze button!

The U.S. Far more gun-related killings than ANY other developed country. The other countries have [i]SURVIVED(pun intended) with sensible gun legislation why can't the U.S.???

We atheists are supposed to be the rational ones look at the FACTS:


   

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03-10-2015, 05:12 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:11 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Wake up call the alarm has been ringing for way to long. Stop hitting the snooze button!

The U.S. Far more gun-related killings than ANY other developed country. The other countries have [i]SURVIVED(pun intended) with sensible gun legislation why can't the U.S.???

We atheists are supposed to be the rational ones look at the FACTS:

Facts will fuck up faith. And it seems a lot of people place their faith in guns in the US.

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03-10-2015, 05:17 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 03:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  But that is not the root of the problem, the lack of mental health care is.

If, instead, you argue that since we have a fucking sick society where we need to prevent the sick fucks from getting guns, I'm down with that. Thumbsup

Among the "sick fucks" are the average people who snap too. The average person who spirals into a fit of depression. Yes, mental healthcare is one of many necessities in helping solve the problem long term. But homogenized laws and regulations and restrictions and licensing requirements is another.

We have some laws such as the federal law stipulating that hand guns may only be purchased in one's state of residence. All of the federal firearms laws are uniform across the country.

Quote:Time and time again, the "illegal guns" in the hands of criminals originated as legal guns somewhere along the line.

All guns start out "legal". People have to break the law to make a gun "illegal".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2015, 05:20 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Among the "sick fucks" are the average people who snap too. The average person who spirals into a fit of depression. Yes, mental healthcare is one of many necessities in helping solve the problem long term. But homogenized laws and regulations and restrictions and licensing requirements is another.

We have some laws such as the federal law stipulating that hand guns may only be purchased in one's state of residence. All of the federal firearms laws are uniform across the country.

Quote:Time and time again, the "illegal guns" in the hands of criminals originated as legal guns somewhere along the line.

All guns start out "legal". People have to break the law to make a gun "illegal".

But the state laws are not homogeneous. So one state being closer to having adequate laws, is undermined by any and every other state that doesn't.

And yes, it is precisely my point that even the illegal guns are legal somewhere along the line. Better restrictions on who gets the guns and how, means fewer illegal guns by necessity.

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03-10-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:23 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If the protective measures do more harm than good, they are worse than useless. Would metal detectors and locks and id's do more harm than good? Probably not, but they'd be an excessive cost and have (in the vast majority of settings) a neutral impact. And (as Clydlee points out), they'd have no actual benefit in any way in some settings.

But putting more guns out there and putting them in classrooms, would only open the door to more problems inside the school. It is not as if teachers lack the capacity to do harm. They are human too.

Not to mention the fact that in order to be useful in self defense, guns in classrooms would need to be accessible. Meaning that accessible guns would be there in the same location as the kids. That is a recipe for disaster.

Guns should not be in every classroom; they should be only accessible to staff who are trained in their use.

In American high schools, there are usually vice principals (and teachers) who are also sports coaches. Some of them are pretty physically imposing and are not likely to have their guns taken.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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